Research? Bah! (August 21, 2007)

[Bandit LOAF]

Maxi de Sokar reports on a Play.TM article which gives a 'history' of the Wing Commander series, going from the original 1990 game through to today. As a basic timeline it's fairly well done, but their conclusions are fairly lame:

The Wing Commander universe lives on however, fans continue to create mods and hacks for the existing games and the recent release via Xbox Live of Wing Commander Arena is the first official new WC game in ten years. While it's turned out to be a none too impressive multiplayer shooter with not an FMV cut scene in sight, it does at least show that the Wing Commander brand lives on in the heart of EA somewhere and perhaps paves the way for a true sixth game in the series. There's been various false dawns for fans over the years, talk of Wing Commander Online or Prophecy sequel Strike Team have all come to nothing, so perhaps now is the time to dust down the franchise and re-invent it for this new generation of gamers who've been so starved of space combat games lately. I for one would be stood in the queue waiting to pick up a copy. Especially if they brought FMV and Mark Hamill back.

Actual Wing Commander fans to stupid people, Arena is awesome. I guess you can't expect the world from an article about Wing Commander that uses a StarLancer screenshot as its splash header (they also claim Chris Roberts left after Prophecy - it was before - and fail to mention Secret Ops). Read the whole thing here. Thanks as well to Justin Vroone.


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Original update published on August 21, 2007

 

[ser lev]

I can't comment arena myself, don't have an x-box 360 and don't really want one; at least till they solve the burnout problem.
But I cant help but feel the author was reviewed a touch harshly. He was genuinley showing affection for the series and while he may have made a mistake about when Chris Roberts left you can't really criticize his dislike of arena because it was his own personal opinion.

Also secret ops may have been left out because he was discussing the games proper and not the mission packs or the like.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Secret Ops was not a mission pack, it was a stand-alone release.

 

[ser lev]

Secret Ops was not a mission pack, it was a stand-alone release.

I know that, poor choice of phrase on my part; however it wasn't a proper release as wc1 wc2 wc3 wc4 or wcp where and it was them that the writer was discussing.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Yes, it was, it was the game that came after Prophecy - and it was also a huge deal because it was the first game ever to be distributed online in episodic form... something that's only now proving to be the method of the future.

 

[ser lev]

Yes, it was, it was the game that came after Prophecy - and it was also a huge deal because it was the first game ever to be distributed online in episodic form... something that's only now proving to be the method of the future.

Is it wing commander 6?

 

[Bandit LOAF]

No, in exactly the same way Prophecy isn't Wing Commander 5.

 

[ChrisReid]

you can't really criticize his dislike of arena because it was his own personal opinion.

Why the hell not? There's nothing magical about an opinion that makes it immune to criticism. It's an unsubstantiated opinion, and it ignores the fact that Arena does many ground-breaking things. His only actual complaint is that it lacks video cutscenes, which doesn't mean anything. Some of my favorite Wing Commander games lack video cutscenes.

 

[ser lev]

No, in exactly the same way Prophecy isn't Wing Commander 5.

I think maybe we're misunderstanding each other.

Secret ops is of course a proper wing commander game, however it didn't contain the story telling of the wing commander games. It was simply a series of missions (Not taking away from the fact it was fun.) it didn't continue the story in the same way wcp2 would have done therefore it feels more like an expansion pack than a game proper.

However if i am wrong the author was still reviewed harshly because whilst yourself and chrisreid have emmersed yourselves in the history of wing commander others have not, the author may have been a fan of the games but not to the extent of others.

Now i mean no disrespect but this is the best analogy i can think of at the moment (if you do find it disrespectful i will edit) think the simpsons comic book guy

 

[Vinman]

I don't know, it was light on story, but it explained what was going on in the WC universe after Prophecy. My major beef with it is the picture of a Mirage IV at the top of a Wing Commander article.

 

[ser lev]

Why the hell not? There's nothing magical about an opinion that makes it immune to criticism. It's an unsubstantiated opinion, and it ignores the fact that Arena does many ground-breaking things. His only actual complaint is that it lacks video cutscenes, which doesn't mean anything. Some of my favorite Wing Commander games lack video cutscenes.

It may do many great things, god of war to many is a great game, but i don't like it, it doesn't make me an idiot just means my opinion of the game differs from other people. It was the idiot part I took exeption to.

 

[ser lev]

I don't know, it was light on story, but it explained what was going on in the WC universe after Prophecy. My major beef with it is the picture of a Mirage IV at the top of a Wing Commander article.

Yes the picture was indeed a big oversight.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I think maybe we're misunderstanding each other.

No, *you* are misunderstanding *me*. I have had this argument many, many, many times - Secret Ops is a stand-alone Wing Commander game, the equal in terms of both real-world importance and 'storyline advancement' as any other. It did things *differently* from some (but not all), but it was in no way less of a game. A history of Wing Commander *must* include the *last* Wing Commander title developed by the original team.

However if i am wrong the author was still reviewed harshly because whilst yourself and chrisreid have emmersed yourselves in the history of wing commander others have not, the author may have been a fan of the games but not to the extent of others.

Now i mean no disrespect but this is the best analogy i can think of at the moment (if you do find it disrespectful i will edit) think the simpsons comic book guy

That's idiotic - I shouldn't criticize him for being wrong because I could have done a better job? Can you imagine a historian reading a poorly researched book and saying "well, it's okay because he didn't really bother to study what he's writing about"? This is the *single* best reason *ever* to criticize someone for something - getting their (in this case fairly obvious) facts wrong.

 

[ser lev]

No, *you* are misunderstanding *me*. I have had this argument many, many, many times - Secret Ops is a stand-alone Wing Commander game, the equal in terms of both real-world importance and 'storyline advancement' as any other. It did things *differently* from some (but not all), but it was in no way less of a game. A history of Wing Commander *must* include the *last* Wing Commander title developed by the original team.




That's idiotic - I shouldn't criticize him for being wrong because I could have done a better job? Can you imagine a historian reading a poorly researched book and saying "well, it's okay because he didn't really bother to study what he's writing about"? This is the *single* best reason *ever* to criticize someone for something - getting their (in this case fairly obvious) facts wrong.

The article was clearly not written from the point of view of an in depth journalistic exploration of the series but rather from the point of view that the writer was just a fan and missed the days of wc, and in that respect i just felt it was an affectionate memory for him.

Perhaps looking into the ins and outs of where he went wrong is missing the point

 

[Farbourne]

I know what the other poster was getting at...Secret Ops FELT (at least to me) like less of a game, the same way that expansion packs feel, even though it was stand alone, and did have awesome gameplay, excellent (for its day) sound and graphics, and a story. There were just little things that felt...unfinished about it. For example, having to quit out of the game in between missions to read the fiction and find out what was happening in the story, as opposed to having even something as simple as a fiction viewer in the game, even if they chose not to do cutscenes. Or the fact that all of the "new" fighters and weapons seemed to be essentially re-skins of the Prophecy ones, with tweaked stats. It just felt like, if the game had been one that they were going to release in stores and charge money for, a quality company like Origin would have polished it up better (either that, or Origin was slipping).

And maybe that was part of the issue, too. Part of the reason it might have felt like less of a game to me (and apparently to others) may have been because it was free...we have a habit of innately judging free things to be less than things we have to pay for. Whatever the reason, I have found that I have the habit of thinking of SecretOps as a "standalone expansion pack" for Prophecy.

But that can't be the whole story. Standoff is also free, and yet somehow it feels like more of a game than Secret Ops, even though it is built on the Secret Ops engine...

 

[Farbourne]

That's idiotic - I shouldn't criticize him for being wrong because I could have done a better job? Can you imagine a historian reading a poorly researched book and saying "well, it's okay because he didn't really bother to study what he's writing about"? This is the *single* best reason *ever* to criticize someone for something - getting their (in this case fairly obvious) facts wrong.

The thing to remember is that you, and people on this site, are probably NOT the target of his article, and he is not claiming to be writing the article as an expert. He's writing to all the causal people who maybe remember Wing Commander vaguely, maybe not. Obviously, everyone should research any facts they use well, and it's all right to point out where people get their facts wrong, and enough errors call into doubt the ability and knowledge of the author. But in this case, the author is NOT claiming to be an expert in all things Wing Commander, in which case his errors would make me take his points less seriously. He is reminding non-fans what a great game Wing Commander was, bringing their attention to the existence of Arena and the CIC and all the great mod projects here, and stating what he, as a casual fan, would like to see in a new Wing Commander game. Because his points are "these are my opinions as a casual fan", his factual errors diminish his writing less than they would if he were styling himself as a WC expert.

In fact, the fact that he made some factual errors reinforces the fact that he is at most a casual fan, and not a hard core fanatic, and hence his opinions might better represent the opinions of the majority of people than yours or mine.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Nixon *felt* like less of a President than Kennedy, but that doesn't mean you forget him when you're writing your history of 20th century American politics.

There's lots of reasons for all the things you listed - from a lack of support for the project from the people running the company (for the low budget) to strange things like the Germans refusing to allow the fiction to be included in a viewer in the Gold release. The fact that they released a giant free game online with lots of work put into things like graphics, writing, voicework, etc. with almost no money in 1997 is pretty darned impressive.

 

[ser lev]

Nixon *felt* like less of a President than Kennedy, but that doesn't mean you forget him when you're writing your history of 20th century American politics.

There's lots of reasons for all the things you listed - from a lack of support for the project from the people running the company (for the low budget) to strange things like the Germans refusing to allow the fiction to be included in a viewer in the Gold release. The fact that they released a giant free game online with lots of work put into things like graphics, writing, voicework, etc. with almost no money in 1997 is pretty darned impressive.

hugely impressive, especially the download release, but i dont think that's what people are getting at

 

[Bandit LOAF]

People aren't getting at anything, they're defending something solely because it's been attacked - we should not stand for articles as poorly researched as this one was.

 

[ser lev]

People aren't getting at anything, they're defending something solely because it's been attacked - we should not stand for articles as poorly researched as this one was.

Like i said it didn't seem researched nor did it give the impression that it was intended to be. Rather it was the writer's fond memories. some articles are writen like that and intend nothing more than to convey the writers memories.