WildWeasel
Spaceman
You've never had that last Salthi try to make a run for it?
Possibilities since fs2 source was released.
- Thread starter Darkmage
- Start date
You've never had that last Salthi try to make a run for it?
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
I'm not sure if you can even compare Jazz and Swing in the music industry with the space-sim genre in the games industry. "Apples and oranges", isn't it? Too, Jazz and Swing were several decades ago, or course most of us wouldn't recognise names which were once famous in our grandparents' times. Space-sims have only faded from the market recently. Give it time, they'll return, they always return. 
Actually, all but Denise Graves, I know.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Absolutely true, and in this case I yield
. Yet, that doesn't disprove the idea of a cycle... the fact that jazz hasn't been extremely popular in the last forty years doesn't imply that it's never going to be popular again.As I said, musicals are a form of opera. How many people here, do you think, haven't heard of Ewan McGregor or Nicole Kidman?
Besides, you look at it the wrong way, really... opera never had the sort of mass appeal that action movies have. And yes, in spite of this, I say that it's just as well known as action movies. Look at it this way - in its 'musical' form, opera was dominant in the 1940s and 50s, and still successful in the 60s (hundred years, you say?), and has started reappearing in the last few years (last year's wildly successful Moulin Rouge is most notable). In its classical form, opera remains as successful as it ever was, and more so - a hundred years ago, operas were not televised and broadcast, which they are these days. The chances of an average person seeing an opera in one form or another today are higher than in the past. Operas are at a high right now, not at a low.
All in all, I do not believe space-sims are gone forever, or even for long. Star Wars Episode 2 will generate some interest, which in turn will hopefully fuel Star Wars Online's success. This in turn will fuel other online space-sims, and this will probably result in the reappearance of the single-player space-sims, too.
True enough. On the other hand, if we apply that analogy to space sims, it could imply that in a few years, most space sims will be mouse-driven RPG style games like Earth & Beyond. Yes, I'm stretching a point here, and no I don't believe that outcome is likely.
Actually, I think that opera and classical music in general were the dominant forms of popular music in Mozart's era. But we've beat this topic into the ground already. I will agree that opera (in whatever form) is not as "marginalized" today as I suggested earlier.
Well, this will certainly be an interesting year, won't it? We have Episode 2 and a new Star Trek movie. In the gaming world we may see Freelancer, and a couple of high profile multiplayer space games (EVE, Earth & Beyond). The major licenses will be sure to chime in with games of their own (Star Wars Galaxies, whatever the next Trek game is). If there is going to be a turnaround in space-based science fiction, now would be a good time for it to happen.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Yeah, unlike all the other stuff that was televised a hundred years ago.
Unfortunately, the space combat engine for Star Wars Galaxies won't be released right away (its the focus of the first expansion), but at least its on the way. Since its an RPG, character skill will be taken into consideration, but the devs have stated that they're providing a 'twitch' option and a non-twitch option for combat. Characters with higher skill will probably have tweaks to make twitch a little easier, but at least the option is there.
Unfortunately, Star Wars combat is about as dissimilar to WC as you can get...
The next Trek space combat game will probably be SFC3, which is set in the Next Gen setting (and is strategy, not sim). Trek Space Combat Sims are dubious at best, with Bridge Commander being the best of the lot. The biggest problems have been the fact that you're not flying a fighter, and that the range of the weapons is too short compared to the speed of the ships (that holds true in the two Academy games, but not in Bridge Commander, which has much more reasonable weapons ranges).
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Eh, that's true. I should have seen that instead making up that confusing explanation.
Anyway, I don't have any problem with that kind of ABs being handled.
Well, none of the major developers is really working on a new WC style game. They tend to be really expensive to make (especially if you include filmed actors) and they haven't sold well. Most new development is being done on MMO RTS/RPG games like EVE, E&B, Ace of Angels, Jumpgate Ep 2. The only major single player space sim in development is Freelancer, and that will probably not have the WC feel either.
There is a small Russian developer working on something called "Homeplanet" that is a single player combat space sim with a branching linear plot. I believe they are using a Newtonian flight model.
There are a bunch of small freeware or shareware projects floating around. You know about Vega Strike, of course. Another one would be Star Wraith 2 (soon to be 3), but I think this is more of an arcade shooter than a sim.
The only other space combat sim in development that I know of is mine.
You misunderstood me.
The gameplay between the Star Wars games and the Wing Commander games is about as different as you can get. Just off the top of my head...
No afterburners in Star Wars
Two guns in Star Wars (and one of them is only for disabling ships) as opposed to the myriad weapons in WC.
Star Wars has lots of guided anti-ship bombs, but only two very powerful, anti-fighter missiles. WC has anti-ship torpedoes (and two different types in WCP), and a number of anti-fighter missiles.
Star Wars has mile long capital ships that can't hurt you if you don't let them (the later the game is, the easier the Star Destroyers are, IMHO - killing an ISD is child's play in the later games, but killing a Corvette takes piloting skills), but take forever to kill (I made a safe spot on a Super Star Destroyer in Alliance by taking out a couple of guns, and then realized I'd get bored looooong before I did enough damage to kill the stupid thing). Wing Commander capital ships are smaller, nastier against fighters, and don't require nearly as long to kill.
I could go on, but I think that's a good start.
Re: Re: Re: FS2 possibilities
http://www.independencewar.com/downloadsandsupport/demos.htm
IMHO, everyone should give the engine a try at least once. Its a VERY different experience if you've never played anything similar, and even if you don't enjoy the game (it has a lot more problem solving than most space combat sims, as you're in the role of corvette captain, not fighter pilot).
Actually, that wasn't quite what I meant.
The afterburner slide, and its vectored thrust cousins in the later games, are WC3's token nod to Newtonian physics. When compared to something like I-War, they're kind of embarassing, IMHO. There's just no real way to compare a WC afterburner slide with the real thing (I-War - Drop assisted piloting, turn off thrust - if any, spin and gun the targets as they shoot by while you maintain your original course and velocity, then turn the assisted piloting on again to make it easier to follow them).
For what its worth, the demos are available here:
http://www.independencewar.com/downloadsandsupport/demos.htm
IMHO, everyone should give the engine a try at least once. Its a VERY different experience if you've never played anything similar, and even if you don't enjoy the game (it has a lot more problem solving than most space combat sims, as you're in the role of corvette captain, not fighter pilot).
Actually, that wasn't quite what I meant.
The afterburner slide, and its vectored thrust cousins in the later games, are WC3's token nod to Newtonian physics. When compared to something like I-War, they're kind of embarassing, IMHO. There's just no real way to compare a WC afterburner slide with the real thing (I-War - Drop assisted piloting, turn off thrust - if any, spin and gun the targets as they shoot by while you maintain your original course and velocity, then turn the assisted piloting on again to make it easier to follow them).
The time I was specifically thinking of is in Prophecy flying a wasp. I accidently hit the booster, flew way past all the bugs, then had to hit the afterburners to get back to the bugs who were in a close range fight with the Midway. The amazing thing is (to me at least), I still actually completed the mission.
On the Kilrah bombing run, I also tend to go overboard on the burners
. The rest of the time, I bring most of my missiles and fuel back.Freespace gives you (sort of) unlimited ab, and while it has it's uses, for those times when you do need it, the energy has run out so you haven't got it
On WC3&4 I usually have the engines set at 25% and guns at 75%. I've never needed to put energy to repairs and only rarely to shields cause I prefer to dodge. This does make some fights last longer (and you can't always afford the time) but I think it feels more real this way
Yup, I sure did. Everything is relative. The gameplay is different only in the context of comparing one scripted space combat sim to another. When you compare them to a Mahjong game or Sim City, XWA and WC are almost indistinguishable from one another.
But I see what you are getting at now.
Gosh, I didn't realize that WC fans' tastes were so (...I'm looking for the right word here...) specialized. I can understand people not liking Freespace because they couldn't get into the story. I'm just surprised that such subtle differences in gameplay between XW and WC would be such a concern. Does different equal bad?
I'm curious: are you interested in any of the other space sim / RTS / RPG games that are coming out this year?
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Actually, I do not believe you are stretching the point. I do not see a reason to discount the above possibility. In fact, when you think about it, unless this happens, the genre will not become popular again. Space-sims, with one or two exceptions, have virtually identical gameplay. This thread illustrates that point perfectly - any genre where people hate or love a game because it has afterburners with infinite or finite fuel desperately needs change.
Indeed, it will be an interesting year. Never have the hopes of so many depended on so few products
.