Parallel Tonality
- Thread starter Unforgiven
- Start date
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I'm tired of telling you. I'll let the other people reading the thread judge.
But the first thing you learn in basic science in high school is that you *don't* prove theories. You make and thest hypothesis' and through study construct a theory. And, again, we've already pointed out thrice that you're *not* properly using negative evidence, even if it was a factor in hard science...
[QUOTE3. Untrue at all i admitted the possibility that the torpedo's may be slightly more powerful than those stated in the TNG Tm which was published before ds9.
4. Of course it did and that is my entire point that it took an ENTIRE FLEET of that era's ships whereas voyager decided to do it all by itself making it violate continuity.[/QUOTE]
Disagree -- you admit that Voyagers torpedoes are more powerful... as a fan of negative evidence, you would agree that there's no evidence that the Borg are using the same types of ships... and various other variables -- you cannot assume that it violates continuity.
Please, point me to the quotes in both DS9 and TNG that "states" that type X and XII phasers come as strips. I will happily concede, then, that whatever phasers the Excelsiors are using, they're not one of those two. But I'm fairly sure no such quote exists. This seems like a case of seeing the strip-phasers and therefore assuming that *all* phasers are like that. Which, in turn, is like seeing a gray cat and assuming that all cats are gray...
Firstoff, like every other Star Trek and STar Wars fan you seem to have no clue what canon means: it doesn't mean that product X doesn't exist... it means that the producers of future shows won't take it into account when writing future... shows.
You really need to give us some point of reference here...
I'll dig out my TNG manual and check.
But we do not know (and in fact it's pretty clear) that the torpedoes have been enhanced and/or replaced by the time the 200 Isotonne quote is given. (And can we get sources for these quotes?)
I'll resist the obvious joke.
1. You use both negative and positive evidence to prove a theory's possibility.
2. of couse we do first no one ever says "class 3 borg cube" or "class 1 cube" instead they just say "borg cube" also they are the same size when scalled to ships of known size.
3. Page 123 TNG TM. DS9 tm, i will get back to you it is at other house.
4. of couse i know what canon is i am not a f*cking retard, it is a bad idea to stereotype and be predudicial just because a person finds enjoyment from a tv show, book, movie, ect. I am offended by your generalization. All movies and shows are considered canon by Paramount and the producers of trek as has been stated repeatedly, all Movies, books, comic books and video games of ST are considered canon by lucasfilm and lucas as well.
5. If you payed attention to the way i addressed your thoughts you would know that the quote in question (from 7+8 on my last post) was in reference to your responce to my Laser/Nav. Deflector comment.
6. page 123 TNG TM talks about charging too.
7. ok then by your logic the 2 quotes from later in the series are even more accurate than the 200 isoton one so the torpedos magically dropped in power. Also if the torps were upgraded they wouldn't use the same name for the type of torpedo, unless they were idiots which i guess you can consider Janeway...
2. of couse we do first no one ever says "class 3 borg cube" or "class 1 cube" instead they just say "borg cube" also they are the same size when scalled to ships of known size.
3. Page 123 TNG TM. DS9 tm, i will get back to you it is at other house.
4. of couse i know what canon is i am not a f*cking retard, it is a bad idea to stereotype and be predudicial just because a person finds enjoyment from a tv show, book, movie, ect. I am offended by your generalization. All movies and shows are considered canon by Paramount and the producers of trek as has been stated repeatedly, all Movies, books, comic books and video games of ST are considered canon by lucasfilm and lucas as well.
5. If you payed attention to the way i addressed your thoughts you would know that the quote in question (from 7+8 on my last post) was in reference to your responce to my Laser/Nav. Deflector comment.
6. page 123 TNG TM talks about charging too.
7. ok then by your logic the 2 quotes from later in the series are even more accurate than the 200 isoton one so the torpedos magically dropped in power. Also if the torps were upgraded they wouldn't use the same name for the type of torpedo, unless they were idiots which i guess you can consider Janeway...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
You can use it to discern the need for a theory, but not to *prove* anything serious.
And again, you *are not using it correctly*.
By the same logic, most computers are the same -- we call them all "computers" in casual conversation and they're the same size scalled to a person.
That's okay, I have to pick up a DS9 manual anyway.
However, I did dig out my old TNG one (1991 printing, if it makes a difference) -- and I don't see that the phasers pass through the segments to charge. As far as I can tell from the very, very technical description the multiple emitter points exist to allow different shaped emissions... and it does make mention of the fact that energy comes from *one or more* of the facts, depending on the situation.
Two posts ago, though, you accused me of having "a rediculous way of viewing the shows" and claimed that "You probably also believe that ST navigational deflectors...". Isn't this *exactly* what you're now complaining about me doing?
However, you misunderstand me -- my point was that the *idea* of canon is being ignored by everyone, *not* the various lists people have decided upon regarding what is and is not canon.
Canon isn't Paramount telling you that a novel doesn't exist -- it's them telling you they won't bother reading it before they write the next Enterprise episode. It's *nothing* more...
Even going back over them, I fail to understand how you addressed my thoughts -- as far as I can tell, you just said some things and numbered them. Whatever you're thinking isn't clear to the rest of us... for instance, your new numbering scheme is certainly not based on the original -- you may have a good reason for that, but if you don't explain it, everyone else will miss it.
See #5... I have no way of knowing to what this refers. I think we already talked about phaser charging and the TNGTM...
I hate to point this out again, but despite repeated requests you've refused to point out any quotes. Please do so.
Loaf, about the shuttles, I do not have a clue as to how many an Intrepid class starship is supposed to carry. All the information was from various Star Trek reference material and zealous fans that agree on the fact that Voyager should have lost all of its shuttles. As a matter of fact, Rick Berman even made some fangled stated that they replicated new shuttles. So there we have the "official" explanation. I will just assume this is correct since Berman had to comment on it. It's not really surprising that they could replicate new ones since Voyagers adaptability seems to far outclass even the Borgs. Voyager seems able to do allmost anything.
Napolean, the Class-VI torpedoes were stated as being 200 isotons in the Voyager episode "Scorpion." This figure is backed by several DS9 episodes. That is here those figures came from.
Ghost, I think you have it backwards. All Star Wars products are officially part of the universe ountill directly contradicted by a greater authority. As for Star Trek, Paramount does not even care whats written. It is not even officially considered part of the universe.
Napolean, the Class-VI torpedoes were stated as being 200 isotons in the Voyager episode "Scorpion." This figure is backed by several DS9 episodes. That is here those figures came from.
Ghost, I think you have it backwards. All Star Wars products are officially part of the universe ountill directly contradicted by a greater authority. As for Star Trek, Paramount does not even care whats written. It is not even officially considered part of the universe.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
Am I the only one who thinks it's odd that people are talking about Star Trek on a Wing Commander chat board?
I do not think that they could replicate ships that big. This sounds like a simply weak excuse to cover their (the creators) mistakes. Anyways, this is Voyager we are talking about. It isn't really a *normal* ship.
However, as WildWeasel has stated, there does seem to be alot of Trek discussion going on. So lets get back to Wing.
However, as WildWeasel has stated, there does seem to be alot of Trek discussion going on. So lets get back to Wing.
Bhaktadil:they never supported seven's scorpion claim in ds9, ds9 photons were stated in the TM to be the standard TNG era ones.
Loaf: I think i recall telling you which episode the one with the cardassian Dreadnought bomb thingy, also in the episode with the doctor on the planet that thought that voyager had attacked them, i cannot recall names.
Once again i point to the fact that i said prove something POSSIBLE.
pg 123 says that those over 200 emitters in the primary saucer phaser (both top and bottum) and that they channel their energy through each other.
I have always know that the non-canon thing does exist it just does not within the official universe, according to the producers what took place there never happened within the universe.
SW Canon: LucasArts Games, Books and comic books ARE considered official meaning that lucas considers them part of the universe and that He is the only person who can disagree with something that is said or done (his reasoning for this was as stated by him that he does not have time to read the books line for line before they are published and does not want to be constrained by some minor statement when he wrote/writes the 3 prequels.
Loaf: I think i recall telling you which episode the one with the cardassian Dreadnought bomb thingy, also in the episode with the doctor on the planet that thought that voyager had attacked them, i cannot recall names.
Once again i point to the fact that i said prove something POSSIBLE.
pg 123 says that those over 200 emitters in the primary saucer phaser (both top and bottum) and that they channel their energy through each other.
I have always know that the non-canon thing does exist it just does not within the official universe, according to the producers what took place there never happened within the universe.
SW Canon: LucasArts Games, Books and comic books ARE considered official meaning that lucas considers them part of the universe and that He is the only person who can disagree with something that is said or done (his reasoning for this was as stated by him that he does not have time to read the books line for line before they are published and does not want to be constrained by some minor statement when he wrote/writes the 3 prequels.
Actually, about the comment made by Napolean earlier about Borg cubes....I think you stated something to the effect that there are no Class 1 cubes, Class 3 cubes, etc. If I remember right, that's not entirely true. I don't know the name of the episode, but in the Voyager when they try to steal a transwarp coil, 7 says something about the cube being a Class 4 tactical cube. (Attack cube? I don't remember the exact words)
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
!@#$% 
Since I'm a lazy bastard, I'll justy hand over a link on Voyager inconsitanciessic: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies3.htm
Since I'm a lazy bastard, I'll justy hand over a link on Voyager inconsitanciessic: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies3.htm
Unforgiven
Spaceman
I don't think they replicated entire shuttles, just the components to rebuild them themselves. Like I said, they can build the Delta Flyer, so why not an ordinary shuttle?Originally posted by Ghost
They replicated Shuttles?, that is weird and stupid, why they don´t replicated ships in SF HQ after Wolf 359?
And about the canonity i think that is like i said.....but i can be wrong
Replicating ships would also have the problem of where to find a crew. Replicate them as well?
So what you're saying is that the Borg have no imagination?
Because things that look alike need not be the same. Can you tell the difference between a CD and a DVD (other than the letters DVD being printed on the latter)?
Can you tell the difference between two cars of the same make and base model but one is a V8 and the other a V12 without checking out either the engine or the exact model number?
We never inspect Borg ships closely enough to state that they are exactly alike. They are all cubes and roughly the same size, but that's about all we know.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It seems the general consensus is that we shouldn't continue a serious Star Trek thread -- and I'm happy to stop... I'm absolutely willing to continue arguing via e-mail if you'd like (and we can cc whoever's interested).