Ooops, or Maniac is a yutz.

That one futuristic combat flying game Echelon had a function that allowed you to hold down a button (Z by default I think) and your view would be centered on your current target while your controls still moved your fighter.

It really gave it a nice over-the-shoulder feel to it in some cases.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
(To explain the Strike Commander virtual cockpit - basically, you had a full 3D cockpint around you... and you would click your right mouse button (or a joystick hat) and have free range of motion to pan your head around the cockpit like a real live fighter pilot.


That was in Pacific Strike, too.
 
The best way to play Strike Commander, IMO, is to use the "chase mode" (not sure if this is the actual name). You'd command the fighter with the joystick, but you would look directly to the target, not to the front of your fighter. It was a nice feature made possible by the virtual cockpits. You could switch back to looking fowards and back to chasing to know what was going on.
 
That was in Pacific Strike, too.

... and WoG, both of which I mentioned in my initial post. :)

The best way to play Strike Commander, IMO, is to use the "chase mode" (not sure if this is the actual name). You'd command the fighter with the joystick, but you would look directly to the target, not to the front of your fighter. It was a nice feature made possible by the virtual cockpits. You could switch back to looking fowards and back to chasing to know what was going on.

Ugh. I just finished Secret Weapons Over Normandy - which is *entirely* in this mode of play. I damn whoever invented it to develop Freespace 3 for all eternity.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Ugh. I just finished Secret Weapons Over Normandy - which is *entirely* in this mode of play.

That's too bad. The game looked pretty good. I was looking to buy it, too.

That mode of play only worked in Sky Gunner, since it was entirely arcade-y. To restrict a player with that "target-centric," chase cam mode in a flight sim is ridiculous. Sure, it's not terrible and it can come in handy. However, it gets a bit disorienting after a while and leads to severely embarressing crashes.

Speaking of PS2 aerospace combat games, anyone play Battlestar Galactica? I've had it since it came out. Not bad; a great Colony Wars filler... but the missions were horrible and frustrating.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
agh. I just finished Secret Weapons Over Normandy - which is *entirely* in this mode of play. I damn whoever invented it to develop Freespace 3 for all eternity.

Careful to what you want.
 
Yeah, I don't really like the padlock mode, either. It's rather disorienting when you switch through targets... maybe if it felt more like your head was swiveling around, rather than jerking from target to target...

But what I really want is still an artificial horizon or two.
 
actually...reading back through this thread, I must admit that I've gotten distracted and run into plenty of capships myself.

The most notable was when i was trying to pull a movie-maniac and slide into the bay at around 1400 kps...facing backwards. I lined up, punched the burner,started the slide, and turned around, hitting the roll button and firing off a continuous stream of (edited) plasma burst...

what i failed to take into accound was the fact the cerberus apparently started to turn shortly after I turned 180...so yeah, I smack right into the side and explode. *cries*
 
Other day I was playing WC3, in Blackmane system. Flying my trusty Hellcat. Fended off the usual kilrathi hordes and decided to do a high-speed fly-through of Blackmane base. So, I kicked the burners and entered, and started doing a joystick roll (that is, button 2 and left on the stick). Unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the game for a second, and when I looked back, I was about a half a second from slamming into an inner wall of the bay. Wham-o. IT'S OVER!
 
the whole chase target thing works best if you're actually in a fighter combat situation in real life since then you know where you're looking at you know which way gravity is pulling you and all that...

Can't really reproduce all that in standard computer peripherals
 
On the thing about cockpits...

overmortal said:
You mean like the cockpits being made for Standoff? 'Cept, those guages aren't going to be functional.

Again, I enjoy a good cockpit, but I don't like it when my view is 40% obstructed because of it. That's why I thought WCP was a pleasant mix. Or, how about the cockpits in MechWarrior3? Those cockpits aren't obstructive, and they look awesome. And they move around, so they don't feel so static.

If you think about it, full-on virtual cockpits for a computer game aren't going to make it more realistic or draw you in, unless they're done right. Never played WCP, but think about this - most people have monitors that range around, oh, 10 to 12 inches, right? This is already obscenely obstructive in a sense. If you imagine your desktop, your computer, and your chair as the cockpit and you have a complete virtual cockpit on the screen, a la WC1 and 2, it becomes redundant.

I like cockpits too, though - and yeah, I agree, from what I remember of the Mechwarrior series, the cockpits there were done well - also the ones from Starsiege (not Tribes). They just have to keep in mind how much "window" a player already has, and then detail the cockpit in a way that would emulate the view from the same position in a 1/1 real-life scale of the actual vehicle. That is to say, don't make the viewpoint of the player the computer screen, but where he is in real life.

*dumps his loose change on the floor*

(By the by, this being my first proper post on WC News, heya to j00 all.)
 
Trev-MUN said:
most people have monitors that range around, oh, 10 to 12 inches, right?

I don't think I've seen a monitor under 14 inches in 10 years, and those are small...

(By the by, this being my first proper post on WC News, heya to j00 all.)

Hi
 
Maybe they use smaller monitors in, I don't know, Myanmar, but in the US at least, most people have moved on to 19"+ monitors. LCDs are generally at 17"+, but those look about as big as a 19" (while not taking up so much space). I haven't really seen a big movement to monitors much larger than 21" in more than professional applications (DTP, photo editing, CAD, etc.).

I used to have an old 14" (more like 13") monitor lying around, it's comic to look at that big, curvy screen now. :) However, I did use a 15" for the longest time. I have moved up to a 17" for the last few years now, with a fairly flat screen.

I'm not sure if they ever sold monitors as small as 10", although 12" is a possibility. I have some old CRTs which look a lot more like TVs. I imagine they can /make/ them that small, but only when the application demands it (like for cash registers). Maybe the poster was measuring the horizontal/vertical dimension, instead of the diagonal? (Including the bezel... you always include the bezel, just like the manufacturers.) :)

*edit*
Oh, BTW, about the virtual cockpit thing being disorienting without gravity and stuff... sure, you'll probably not being able to simulate /that/ on a home setup for at least a few decades (they have a centrifuge-simulator thing that works kinda well now), that's precisely why I keep bringing up that I wish they had an artificial horizon-type thing in space games, reading out roll/pitch/yaw with some easy-to-understand graphical (or even numerical) indicator. Instead, you have to kinda simulate it by taking a look at the radar and trying to use some of your targets as fixed references... doesn't work that well in practice.

Another fancy bit of technology you might not see for some time is a hemispherical screen (you sit at the center) which uses the projected image from a CRT to create a 180 degree FOV. It's quite immersive, from what I hear. :) Another one of those toys you probably won't be able to get unless you're rich, though (it is available to consumers). Probably the next best thing is a multiple monitor configuration, or a physical cockpit mock-up (hrm, weren't there a few screenshots of people building their own WC cockpits?).

*edit 2*
BTW, the FOV depends on how close you sit to the monitor. ;) Imagine WC1 projected on your wall... well, besides the fact that the FOV in the game is only half the screen, you could get the same effect by gluing your nose to the monitor (or maybe slightly back... you need to focus and all).
 
I've never seen a WC cockpit setup - but I've certainly researched building one. It's something I still hope to do someday (G)
 
when I get rich, i want to have a company build a 3-D space combat simulator for up to four players...fully immersive cockpits...hopefull with an engine similar to wing Commanders- autoslide, missiles and such! :)
 
Nomad Terror said:
That one futuristic combat flying game Echelon had a function that allowed you to hold down a button (Z by default I think) and your view would be centered on your current target while your controls still moved your fighter.

Holy crap! I thought I was the only person to have ever played Echelon! Great music for the ol' PC speaker, but I have a hell of a time slowing a 386 down enough to get it to play right.

Col.Dom said:
Speaking of cockpits and HUDs... is it just me or did the Dragon/Lance HUD seem awfully... Klingon :confused:

I agree, the Dragon looks and acts a lot like a Bird of Prey.
 
Sycorax said:
Holy crap! I thought I was the only person to have ever played Echelon! Great music for the ol' PC speaker, but I have a hell of a time slowing a 386 down enough to get it to play right.
Huh?

I have Echelon, though I've yet to install it/play it. AFAIK, it's a Win95 game; what's this bidness of "slowing down a 386" enuff to get it (Echelon, presumably) to play right?...

U sure you ain't thinking of some other game?...


:confused:
 
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