Obsolete ships

Discussion in 'General Wing Commander Chat' started by Ladiesman^, Jan 27, 2001.

  1. papachulo10

    papachulo10 Spaceman

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    The panther was a great plane and she served admirably during Korea, but when the Cougar came out it put the panther in the back seat. And then came the Phantom(oversimplifing, there were a couple more in between) and the rest is history.
     
  2. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    Actually the Corsair was the primary naval fighter before the F-4 Phantom II came along. And the reason while 50's planes did not serve on the front lines for as long as modern planes is that the technology behind engines and designs for airframes were changing so quickly that the planes had to be replaced quite quickly. Whereas the F-15 and F-16 still use the Pratt and Whittney F-100 Turbofan engine, an engine that the F-15 was introduced in the early 1970's with as its engine.
     
  3. papachulo10

    papachulo10 Spaceman

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    I m pretty sure that the Cougar or the Panther's were the main attack planes. And of course there is the version of the Sabre that the Navy used.
     
  4. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    Attack planes yes, but in mentioning the Phantom you brought up fighters since the navy strike planes of the mid to late 1960's were the Coursair II, the A-6 intruder, and the A-4 skyhawk
     
  5. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    The Corsair? Surely you don't mean the WWII-vintage F4U. There were many naval fighters between the F4U and the F-4 Phantom II. Of particular note would be the F-8 Crusader (which I suspect you meant), the mainstay of the US Navy before the Phantom II.

    Similarly, you couldn't mean the A-7 Corsair II, as it was a dedicated attack plane. It had some limited air-to-air capability, but would not be properly referred to as a fighter.
     
  6. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    No sorry I meant the Vaught Crusader, I got it confused with the Coursair 2, I appologize for my mistake.
     
  7. papachulo10

    papachulo10 Spaceman

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    I also thought that you were talking about the F4U. But the F-8 the mainstay? I thought they only came a little bit earlier than the F-4. They still used it i the NAM and were revered because they were one of the only fighter planes that actually had guns on them. But personally i think that the best attack plane ever made was the A-6 Intruder.
     
  8. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    Absolutely. It was the frontline US Navy fighter for several years prior to the introduction of the Phantom II.

    Correct. The Crusader and Skyhawk were really the only naval craft with integral guns -- though the Navy sometimes loaded external cannon pods on their F-4s. The introduction of the F-4E gave the Air Force a cannon-armed fighter, but not the Navy. That wouldn't happen until the war's waning days, when the F-14 entered service (but saw no operational combat in Vietnam).

    I wouldn't even begin to argue with you there, at least not for naval use (though overall the F-111 might make a strong claim). Other planes may have been better in one or two individual categories, but none had the combination of range, payload (quantity and versatility), delivery accuracy, navigational ability, and ruggedness. It's a sound testament that the craft was still the frontline attack craft in the US Navy 30 years after its service debut. Twas a sad day when the A-6 was retired from duty.
     
  9. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    A great light attack plane was the A-26 a wwII craft that could fly like a fighter and scored 2 jet fighter kills that went on to fly in both Korea and Vietnam, to replace it the air force had to buy some navy A-7 Coursair IIs
     
  10. Dragon

    Dragon Spaceman

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    What the hell are you talking about???
    Nort Korea have the MiG 15 that had several problems to start with (a great plane regardless), Nort Vietman had the MiG 17 (that fixed most of the MiG 15 problems) and it later interduce the MiG 21 (that carried missiles), The A-26 could never match either of those Migs, besides A-7 in the US Air Force???, why would they do that, they got the F-4 Phanton II, and the F-100 (dont remember the nickname, but it was related to the Sabre [the plane himself, not the nickname]) that also could Fight like a figher and bomb like a bomber and they are both a lot faster and far more capable that a 20+ years old plane.
    And I never heard of A-7 on the Air Force.
     
  11. Corsair

    Corsair Spaceman

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    Haven't finished the whole lineup to see just what started this, but a few notes:

    F-100 was the Super Sabre. As for the A-7 Corsair II being in the air force, highly unlikely, but possible I suppose. I wonder if perhaps the original writer was thinking of the F5U Corsair, an upgraded version of the WWII F4U which was used as a ground attack aircraft before, if I recall correctly, being superseded by the A-1 Skyraider. Could be wrong though, haven't researched it much, just using my memory.
     
  12. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    Absolutely. The A-7D is (rather, was) the dedicated Air Force variant of the Corsair II. 459 were built. They gave way to the A-10 in the early 80's, but at one point there were some 14 squadrons of A-7D's in the Air National Guard.

    The A-7D used a slight variantion of the standard craft's engine, the TF-41-A-1. The inflight refueling probe of the naval craft was replaced with a dorsal refueling receptacle, which formed a small hump in above the forward wing. In the late 70's, a small chin fairing housing a TISL laser designator was added. And the A-7D was the first Corsair II variant to replace the twin 20mm cannon with the single 20mm six-barreled Vulcan cannon.

    End military aviation lesson. :)
     
  13. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    Though the A-26 Invader did indeed fly in both the Korean (as a bomber) and Vietnam (as a reconnaissance platform) Wars, I can find no record of any jet kills.

    The only mention of piston-engined craft scoring kills over jet craft -- other than the Me-262 in WWII -- that I can find are by an F4U Corsair (twice), an A-1 Skyraider, a P-51 Mustang variant, the P-82 Twin Mustang.
     
  14. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    there were 2 german me-262 jet kills towards the end of the war. This was taken from the discovery chanel television show "Wings" which aired weekly from the late 80's to the mid 90's. There is an epidode on the A-26 which mentiones its kills. also in Vietnam it served as an attackplane not a recon platform. It was replaced in 68 because the airframe was just too old, and it was replaced by the Airforce variant of the A-7 Coursair II (the D model). But in the interim before the airforce purchased A-7's they used modified F-4's and F-101 thunderthuds (not official name but a nickname).
     
  15. Dragon

    Dragon Spaceman

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    (Original)Phoenix, real nice personal insignia, congrats.
     
  16. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    Pheonix, I like the title, but why Emertus, are you really retired?
     
  17. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    Oh! In WWII, sure! I thought you were referring to the Korean and Vietnam Wars. My apologies....


    According to my sources, it was recalled to active duty in 1962, but in _less than 12 months_ was found to be simply too old. However, some 70 of them were refurbished by On Mark Engineering into the B-26K variant (which included integral recon cameras), which did see limited bomber duty against the VietCong. However, the craft was used primarily in an armed reconnaissance role. So yes, you are correct, in a limited fashion.


    First, the F-4s weren't "modified" -- Air Force Phantoms were always fighter-bomber capable, and regularly used as such. Also, the Thud wasn't an interim, but a regular player in the bombing of the North Vietnamese; it also was used extensively in the Wild Weasel role, carrying the Standard ARM and Shrike.
     
  18. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    What I meant about the thud, was that it was used in the role of the a-26 as well as its normal role, as an interim measure
     
  19. OriginalPhoenix

    OriginalPhoenix Professor Emeritus

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    In real life, of course not...I'm only 30! But emeritus is defined as "retired from active service, but retaining one's rank or title". I have a History degree (among others), and 22 years of military aviation study. Don't have as much time to dwell on those loves much anymore, but the acquired knowledge is still here, swimming around in my head.

    Seemed a logical choice.... :)
     
  20. Napoleon

    Napoleon Spaceman

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    makes quite a bit of sence actually, i like your symbol as well.
     

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