Need creative suggestions

Discussion in 'Wing Commander 3D' started by gevatter Lars, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. ChrisReid

    ChrisReid Super Soaker Collector / Administrator

    Messages:
    14,144
    Likes Received:
    388
    Trophy Points:
    69,485
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    From the Confederation Handbook:
    22 Point-Defense
    8 Turreted Lasers
    40 Torpedo Tubes
     
  2. lorddarthvik

    lorddarthvik Spaceman

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Europe,Hungary,Budapest
    Thanks for the shots. I'll try to build it when I got the time. Sweet memomriez of a great game, I can still remember the sound of the water dripping, into the bucket...

    40torp tubes? Wow, if we take the movie type torps (1shot/1cap-ship) this ship could 'v won the war on its own :D

    Well, as we go trough the wing commanders, torps got weaker and weaker, and cause this is a WC1 ship, I'd reccomend useing less tubes than 40.
    The two sides will add up to 24 then, and adding the forward firing tubes, 4 or 6 or a some small number like that, it'l reach to about 30, but I personally can't see a spot for the other 10 tubes.
    ChrisReid, do you have data on how big a cap-ship torpedo was? That wouls help the scale/placemenet too.
     
  3. gevatter Lars

    gevatter Lars Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    33,635
    Location:
    Hamburg Germany
    IIRC it was 2 torpedos for a Kilrathi destroyer and the claw itself has taken about 4 kilrathi torpedos before they said she couldn't withstand another hit.
    That would be similar to the numbers in WC3.

    @Chris
    Thanks for the numbers.
    At the moment I have oriented myself upon what was visible in the Clawmarks what would be 3 bigger turrets and 15 smaller turrets.
    I think I will also see to add some of the point-defence stuff.
    What kind of point defence would that be most likely? Flak, a gattlingtype massdriver, normal massdrivers? I think the missile point-defence-system was developed in WC2 so it wouldn't be an option.

    For the numbers of the Torpedo tubes...12 on each side as seen in the movie would be ok. I think I could even make some space for 6 tubes in the front. What is the idea about backward facing tubes?

    About the scale of the torpedos...they seam to have two sizes as referance. One scene is where the torpedos get loaded. Seeing the people standing next to it. The other is when they are fired. My memories could be false but it could be that they had different sizes.
     
  4. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

    Messages:
    28,820
    Likes Received:
    559
    Trophy Points:
    69,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ashton, MD, USA
    I don't think you and the rest of the internet understand the concept of realism. Wing Commander is *fiction*, so 'realism' to Wing Commander means following the established guidelines. It is exactly *not* a carte blanche term for some chat zone user to throw around to cover his inability or unwillingness to adhere to these guidelines. Let me be the one to break it to you: nothing about Wing Commander is real. You can apply your "trick" to any single element of the series -- which is why it's idiotic. Proper realism in a fiction setting means figuring out how to put the various launch tubes in... it's not some easy excuse for you to be stupid.

    We don't know anything about how powerful torpedoes were in 2654. On its face, this comment is completely ridiculous -- they *might* be too powerful, so they *must* not exist? Jeez.

    The Terran Confederation Handbook has a diagram that shows where various torpedo tubes are. Do your research.
     
  5. Mace

    Mace Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,615
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    35,135
    Location:
    Netherlands
    didn't shield technology just advance faster than torp technology?
     
  6. lorddarthvik

    lorddarthvik Spaceman

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Europe,Hungary,Budapest
    @ Bandit LOAF: If you'd cared to pay some attention, you could notice that "realistic" in this case is applied as seen "realistic" in the movie, and "realistic" as belivable to even a complex human mind, not just to some 15y.o. fanboy. It means making the totally cartoon style original modell of the tigers claw in a more belivable looking way.
    (don't worry, I do understand that we don't have Hellcats flying patrols to protect Earth)

    Well, Mace got it right about Torps and shields of course. While in WC1, one or two torps were enough, in WC3 it was around 3-4. So, sorry, I just did put it the wrong way. I tried to explain that you needed more to blow a capship in later WC games than in WC1.

    Takeing the Movie as a base for bulilding this ship "real", I just mentioned that 2-4 torps were enough to blow a capship. THats why mentioned that 40 tubes would look like an overkill (taking the movie torps as base). Sorry if you didn't understood this.
    BTW, where did I say that it *must* not exist? Read those lines again.

    "The Terran Confederation Handbook has a diagram that shows where various torpedo tubes are. Do your research."
    Thanks, I didn't know that. I'll do.


    So on-topic: rear torp tubes? sounds okay to me. You can shoot at em while fleeing for example. Hidden between the engines maybe? (or the engine wash would blow em?)
    As for the size, I think in the loading scene we can see one size only. It looks about 1,5m diameter maybe?
    One more thing about the side torp tubes: the German voice-over says Rockets, not Torpedos in the side-by-side battle scene. Is it just a mistake, or is it intentional?
    Just an idea, if I may post it and you don't ut my haed off, Thank you very much:
    IF it is true that those are just missiles, that could make sense, since we don't see any shockwave or other kind of area effect of the blasts, while in the Paladin"s Torp scene, and the Skipper blow up scene we got nice big area blasts. What do you think? IF it is just a mistake in the translation, then this has no sense of course.
     
  7. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

    Messages:
    28,820
    Likes Received:
    559
    Trophy Points:
    69,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ashton, MD, USA
    Oh, I'm sorry, was I not paying attention to your post? I guess I won't have to worry about that again. Go be a jerk somewhere else.
     
  8. gevatter Lars

    gevatter Lars Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    33,635
    Location:
    Hamburg Germany
    This wasn't about the realsim of "you can touch it" but the thing that was meant is simple that a cartoon dosn't has fixed sizes. When building a 3d model you have some fixed sizes as the interrior can't be bigger then the outside and so on. In a cartoon you can easly fix some things up to fit your needs.

    Thats exactly what we try to do. Starting with the sizes given and then addjust things to a scale where it can be combinet. That their are different opinions how to do that is normal.

    True we don't know how powerfull they are...but we can see that two torpedos of the Claw where enough to destroy an undamaged Kilrathi destroyer in the movie and that the Claw herself could take at least 4-5 if my memory serves me well.
    Looking at that the number of 40 tubes lets one think that the Claw could maybe destroy an entire Kilrathi battleforce on its own when given the possibility of getting undetected into the right firing position.

    For the numbers. I will see how big these torpedos are and try to fit in as much as possible into the hull...but as said above their are limits to what can be done.
    The torpedos would have to be made maybe smaller to fit the numbers in or they keep their size and we have maybe less....but that is something I will look into when I am working on it. At the moment I have other concerns.

    I have done the research and looking at the diagram the Claw would have between 42 and 54 tubes into its front arc in addition to its 32 missilunchers at the side (each side has 16).
    On the other hand it says that the diagram shows the position and not the right scale so does this also count for the numbers? It would have to if the book says onyl 40 tubes for torpedos...but what does it says about the missiles?

    About the rear firing ones...I have put that idea aside since we don't have ever seen any ships with rear firing torpedo tubes and nothing indicates that their where some.

    @Loaf
    Could you please set back lorddarthvik so he can post again? Their has been some missunderstandings in this one as far as I have seen...and hopefully could explain above so that this wasn't realy necessary was it? I know you think that its necessary to reign over the forum with a hard hand and thats mostly ok, but I think in this case its was a little to harsh don't you?
    Also loarddarthvik has some ongoing project with someone else that I would like to see progressing and throwing him out could stop that progress. It realy has some nice ideas to it and could be a nice addition to the fanart section when finished.
     
  9. Bob McDob

    Bob McDob Better Health Through Less Flavor

    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36,885
    Location:
    Grassy Knizzle
    Registration isn't required outside of the main forums, so technically darthvik can reply any time he wants.
     
  10. gevatter Lars

    gevatter Lars Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    33,635
    Location:
    Hamburg Germany
    I thought that was changed some time back...well if thats so...request taken back.
     
  11. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Austin, Texas. That sais it all about LoaF.

    GevatterLars: please contact me on my email adresse at if your still interested. lorddarthvik@hotmail.com
    thanx
     
  12. psych

    psych Destroyer of assclowns

    Messages:
    1,075
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    32,385
    Location:
    in the back, not saying shit
    I also went to college in Austin, Texas.

    Shitbird.
     
  13. hurleybird

    hurleybird Rear Admiral

    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    22,935
    I don't get it. What does Austin have to do with anything?
     
  14. Dyret

    Dyret Super Carrot!

    Messages:
    2,681
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    36,885
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    Lord Stupid is just being stupid, just ignore him.:)
     
  15. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Insanity

    This whole thread is just turning into a massive slagging match.
     
  16. Bob McDob

    Bob McDob Better Health Through Less Flavor

    Messages:
    3,390
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36,885
    Location:
    Grassy Knizzle
    The young recruit is 'ammered -- 'e takes it very hard;
    'E 'angs 'is 'ead an' mutters -- 'e sulks about the yard;
    'E talks o' "cruel tyrants" which 'e'll swing for by-an'-by,
    An' the others 'ears an' mocks 'im, an' the boy goes orf to cry.

    The young recruit is silly -- 'e thinks o' suicide.
    'E's lost 'is gutter-devil; 'e 'asn't got 'is pride;
    But day by day they kicks 'im, which 'elps 'im on a bit,
    Till 'e finds 'isself one mornin' with a full an' proper kit.
     
  17. gevatter Lars

    gevatter Lars Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    33,635
    Location:
    Hamburg Germany
    It dosn't matter to me who started it but stop it ok?!
     
  18. ChrisReid

    ChrisReid Super Soaker Collector / Administrator

    Messages:
    14,144
    Likes Received:
    388
    Trophy Points:
    69,485
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    If someone manages to start a fight with two CZ administrators in two separate incidents in the same thread, then experience would tell us that they're going to continue to jerk up threads until something is done about it.

    That wouldn't be very smart though. We don't ban people just so they can turn around and keep posting. And we have plenty of options to actually prohibit posting if they decide to be clever and circumvent the standard ban.

    So can a single flight of Broadswords or Sabres if they're in the right situation, but circumstances are never ideal. The Claw is often referred to as a strike carrier as well, which implies something beyond what we've come to expect from standard carriers.

    Hehe, I just noticed that.
     
  19. Bandit LOAF

    Bandit LOAF Long Live the Confederation!

    Messages:
    28,820
    Likes Received:
    559
    Trophy Points:
    69,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ashton, MD, USA
    If he posts anonymously, we will ban his IP.
     
  20. gevatter Lars

    gevatter Lars Vice Admiral

    Messages:
    1,332
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    33,635
    Location:
    Hamburg Germany
    Thats true...still fitting in 40 tubes will be hard without some bigger changes. Well I have to come up with something about that I guess.

    I also got a question...from the movie diagramms it seams that the 40 tubes aer just in the front position. The other side tubes we see in the movie are missile lunchers...at least to according to the diagram. Are these missilelunchers mentioned somewhere also or just in that diagram?
    It would help me to know if I can count these side tubes as extra missiles or if I can include their numbers into the 40 tubes for torpedos.

    Also are their any other reference material (prefereable pictres of the hangar and hull details) in the book where the moive claw diagrams are comming from?
     

Share This Page