Matrix Reloaded (some spoilers of course)

Have you watched it?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 28 66.7%
  • Uhmm... not yet.

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • Watch what?

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Originally posted by ChrisReid
A has troubles because it doesn't allow for the series to be concluded. Nomatter what you do, you never know if you really "escaped" the Matrix. That might be alright, but I think that'd be something less of a fulfilling ending.
Quite some movies went that road however. Just not with the Matrix, but with the Dream in a Dream in a Dream in...
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Originally posted by Wedge009
The Oracle actress died? That's so sad. But the Oracle still makes an appearance in Revolutions?
Yeah, she did. Not the only one of the matrix team even...

Originally posted by Wedge009
What I don't understand is if they allowed Zion to survive to counter the disruption free Humans would cause within the Matrix, why can't they have access to it? Agent Smith was getting all crazy about getting into Zion's mainframe in the original.
[/B]
Agent Smith was just a program playing his role. As such his crazeness could have just been a distraction/test/...
What he is now is more questionable. He might still be part of the equation or he might do his own agenda. Who knows.


Originally posted by Wedge009
The Matrix is falling apart? Why, and when did the Architect say that? I must have missed it.
Looks like it.

Originally posted by Wedge009
Also, Neo is supposed to pick a handful of people to restart the Matrix. How does that leave the rest alive? Or is the choosing of people supposed to mean that they are freed from the Matrix?
As I get it the people in the matrix are dead anyhow and the people of Zion will be killed as far as the Matrix is concerned. I think the whole thing rather went into the direction of Adam and Eve. Neo and the other selected people are supposed to repopulate the Matrix.
So Neo can either have humanity wiped out or rescue them as slaves.

Originally posted by TC
Zion is pretty screwed in both of the suggested scenarios, in both it gets smashed, but if Neo co-operates he gets to restart it with a handful of people. People in the Matrix will, apparantly, die if Neo doesn't co-operate because the matrix will collapse, instead of being properly restarted. Restarting it properly doesn't kill the people in the Matrix, it just starts it over again.
Are you sure Neo is to repopulate Zion? I got the impression he is to repopulate the Matrix actually and the people will die either way. But I must say that I didn't get that Architect conversation 100%.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by cff
Are you sure Neo is to repopulate Zion? I got the impression he is to repopulate the Matrix actually and the people will die either way. But I must say that I didn't get that Architect conversation 100%.
That's the way I heard it.. Sounded like he would rebuild Zion. Didn't get the impression that the people in the Matrix would be killed and reborn (merely reformatted for the fresh Matrix).
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Didn't the architect ask Neo to pick so many men and women to repopulate Zion just like he did every other time?
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by LeHah Didn't the architect ask Neo to pick so many men and women to repopulate Zion just like he did every other time?
"He" the Architect or "He" the "Chosen One". Not Neo.
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Originally posted by ChrisReid
That's the way I heard it.. Sounded like he would rebuild Zion. Didn't get the impression that the people in the Matrix would be killed and reborn (merely reformatted for the fresh Matrix).
Found a transcript of that very scene. Seems I got it wrong and it was indeed Zion.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
This is the sixth Neo thats "corrupted" the Matrix. You see, during the Architect scene, the video monitors was the previous incarnations of Neo and all his reactions to what the Architect told him. Basicly, the anomoly that is Neo, not as a character but as a former computer system of sorts, is adapting it's self to survive what the Architect is attempting to do by destroying Zion and rebooting the Matrix.

The predestination thing is shown vividly in this scene: Neo responds "bullshit" to one of the Architect's rhetorics, and then all the video monitors show him reacting the same. At the same time, it shows that while the Matrix mainframe is adapting to humanity (so it doesn't have to keep this paradox cycle of destroying Zion and such), the Architect admits that the original Matrix was perfection. To appease humanity, the Matrix must be imperfect and thus corruptable. Neo is the archtype of this ideal, and thus either the Matrix will not work because of it's inhumanity of perfection or it must become humane through flaws and accept corruption through rebellion and anomolies.

Does that make any sense or am I just repeating what everyone else thinks?
 

Fenrir

Spaceman
Well one thing I gotta say is that whole theory about the matrix that someone posted is somewhat good but also somewhat a little on the crazed size well this is to sum up some stuff for people

The architect stated that this was the 6th matrix meaning that Neo was the 6th One. The Merovingian also reenforces this by saying I've survived all of your predecesors and I will survive you. Zion is most likely the real world and not the matrix because if it was the matrix then someone would have figure out that they could defy the rules in the real world as well and have made it all false.

The architect clearly states that Neo is to repopulate Zion that is where the phrophecy comes from. 23 people are freed from the matrix 12 women 11 men and then Neo is like the father of the whole movement being the one and freeing everyone until he dies and a new one is created by the random element of the system choice. The architect also states that they have destroyed Zion 6 times already which implies that it's real and Neo is meant to repopulate Zion not the matrix because the machines can do that itself. It is also clearly stated that there is a .01% or so of error which results in the one and creates that one person that can defy the whole matrix. Neo refuses to save human kind by not selecting people and returning to Zion to repopulate it after the entire place will have been wiped out. Also when you look at Zion itself after watching 2nd rennaisance can you actually believe humans fleeing from that horrible world actually created Zion as soon as I saw it there seemed to be almost to much technology after watching the animatrix episodes that came out.

Now when you think of Neo's powers he showed in the real world you gotta conside that humans and the human brain are just computers of flesh and blood so what if the power of the one and the fact that he chose the different door wrote a program into his mind that allowed him to feel the machinses and through whatever emit a signal that affects them. However this is pure speculation here.

The only facts that we know going into revolutions is that Neo is the 6th one. Zion is mechanism created to deal with the one variable in the Matrix choice. Now that Neo has defied the phrophecy the system made to protect the matrix. There will be revolution hence the name of the next movie.
 

Col.Dom

Spaceman
You know, this all brings new light to the Prophecy as said by Morpheus in the first movie. Morpheus said something along the lines of (not exact quote here) "There was a man who could do things others couldn't; manipulate the matrix in ways others couldn't. He set us free and promised he would return."

Something along those lines. Whoever knows exactly what was said, let me know!

Could that "He" Morpheus speaks of be the 5th One? Being that the 5th One freed the 23 people to repopulate Zion... promised them "his" return, knowing what the Architect most likely told him [about the previous four before him]. Sort of defeatist to accept that sort of control but I suppose when you consider four men before you made the same choice and the alternative meant human extinction....

Also, let us not forget that "Revolution" means "full circle." The trilogy could just as well end with the cycle starting anew and this Neo (the 6th One) promising his return....
 

Concordia

Swabbie
Banned
Originally posted by Fenrir
The only facts that we know going into revolutions is that Neo is the 6th one. Zion is mechanism created to deal with the one variable in the Matrix choice. Now that Neo has defied the phrophecy the system made to protect the matrix. There will be revolution hence the name of the next movie.
You're telling me that Zion is part of the Matrix as well?

-Concordia
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Concordia
You're telling me that Zion is part of the Matrix as well?

-Concordia
That idea has come up several times in this thread, but that's not what he's saying there..
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I'm pretty sure Morpheus referring to a previous One freeing the first of the free people in the original movie is supposed to be the 5th One.

I haven't had the opportunity to see the Animatrix movies. How much is revealed in those?
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Originally posted by Fenrir
Zion is most likely the real world and not the matrix because if it was the matrix then someone would have figure out that they could defy the rules in the real world as well and have made it all false.
Just what Neo does in the end. At so it is very much possible that Zion isn't real. Also supported by the fact that the Machines have to dig again - where are the old 5 Zions?
Alternatively there might be a real Zion, but what Neo sees at the end of pt 2 is a matrix duplicate. Leaves 2 more interpretations - he never was in the real Zion or he just wasn't in the real world after leaving the Architect - that proggy might have tricked him into an illusion..

Originally posted by Fenrir

The architect clearly states that Neo is to repopulate Zion that is where the phrophecy comes from. 23 people are freed from the matrix 12 women 11 men and then Neo is like the father of the whole movement being the one and freeing everyone until he dies and a new one is created by the random element of the system choice.
Right on the Zion thing, my fault here. It is 16 woman and 7 men however...

Originally posted by Fenrir

The architect also states that they have destroyed Zion 6 times already which implies that it's real and Neo is meant to repopulate Zion not the matrix because the machines can do that itself.
They might need the psychological seed of Neo even if Zion is in the matrix. Don't forget the Architect talks about some code that has to be reinserted (albeit in a different context).

Originally posted by Fenrir

Now when you think of Neo's powers he showed in the real world you gotta conside that humans and the human brain are just computers of flesh and blood so what if the power of the one and the fact that he chose the different door wrote a program into his mind that allowed him to feel the machinses and through whatever emit a signal that affects them. However this is pure speculation here.
Problem is they didn't just fail working, that whole thing looked very much like an EMP wave. Something the human brain cannot just as easily do.

Originally posted by LeHah
This is the sixth Neo thats "corrupted" the Matrix. You see, during the Architect scene, the video monitors was the previous incarnations of Neo and all his reactions to what the Architect told him.
Not the only interpretation! Could also be showing all possible reactions that Neo could respond with. I tend to rather go with this view.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Neo is the sixth "chosen one". It looked like the other 6 on the monitors were the previous versions of him, perhaps trapped there, perhaps recorded. But it's probably the Matrix trying to predict Neo's response... The Matrix needs to predict human behavior to control it. That's why they need the Oracle. That's why they need the "prophecy", and even Zion.

Neo is not a computer problem or a computer problem. He is a human that, somehow, is able to exploit the imperfection of the Matrix. Even a 99% perfect Matrix is 1% fallible. But since the failure can be predicted, it can be controlled with Zion and the "prophecy".

If they can control Zion and "the one", they have nothing to fear. That's why they allow Zion to exist and even re-create it. It could be far more dangerous to just let things go free.

Keep your friends closer, and your enemies even closer. For as long as they allow Zion to exist, there will be no true threat to them. Apparently, all other "ones" choose to save the matrix and mankind, and recreate Zion. Apparently, Neo choose differently, what was not supposed to happen.

It's odd, really, because he should have no choice, his choice should be an illusion, or already be made. So it can still be part of the trap, or not. We'll probably learn on revolutions.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Zion and the Real World.

It's hard to know what's real. There are several theories, including the "multiple matrices" and "multi-layer matix". It's even possible for Zion to be real and Neo and the others be trapped into a fake "real world" that emulates the real world with Zion.

But there are basically 2 options:

a) The "Real World" is actually part of the Matrix.

b) The "Real World" is actuall the Real World. In this case, Neo would've been able to somehow interact with the machines. Maybe he aquired real supernatural powers. Maybe he has some of the Matrix code in him and can use it against the machines.
 

Wulf

Vice Admiral
The theory about the multi-layer Matrix seems to make the most sense after listening to what the Architect was saying (about the Oracle coming up with a solution for the best control environment). Here's what I'm thinking: Zion was a part of the Oracle's solution; it is a mis-direction tactic. It is a world portraying such a grim, horrific future that, by the time one finally gets their senses back, won't even think to investigate further. It would be like taking one of the people in the Matrix, and bringing them into that dome-city that Truman was in (the one with Jim Carrey). I hope I explained that OK.

Just imagine though...if we could think up a theory like that, how great would the Bros. surprise us? The above could be true, it could be even more involved than what I've mentioned, or we would be disappointed somehow because we went overboard on thinking up theories, :D .
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Originally posted by cff
Not the only interpretation! Could also be showing all possible reactions that Neo could respond with. I tend to rather go with this view.
Incorrect. Theres only 5 reactions on each monitor. They're just all looped.
 
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