Matrix Reloaded (some spoilers of course)

Have you watched it?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 28 66.7%
  • Uhmm... not yet.

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • Watch what?

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

Pedro

Admiral
Eh gad, I agree with Delance, scary, but yeah I really liked the conversation with the architect, and I was glad the religous ideas were washed away :) I also found the action sequences much more satisfying that in the first, granted it was all obvious CG in the 100 Agent Smiths battle but when Neo picked up that lamp post things really got intresting.

Wasn't so keen on the Zion scenes, they managed to include hundreds of faces and yet not make you care about them anymore, however that is easily forgiven given the fact that they actually dared to have an semi-original sci fi idea :)
 

jammyo2k

Spaceman
It was a great film. The amazing thing is that Reloaded is about 50 times bigger than the first film (apparently Neo's fight with the multiple smiths contained more movement than all of Martix 1 not even including the totally CGI bits) and yet maintains the same detail level as the original. The biggest difference between the two is that the original was all about machines while Reloaded was all about people.

However, one problem WHERE THE HELL WAS TANK!?
 

TheFraix

Vice Admiral
Well... you can find more info the previous Times magazine edition (Matrix Secrets Revealed coverpage)...

said that Warner Bros ain't talking much, but the actor had some problems... showed up, took some food...

I don't know the exact details, but it's a pity he's not in Reloaded.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
There are some issues, however. We think all those non-human folks are programs. However, on the first movie, Smith says he hates being in the matrix and he wants out. Now wait a sec, if he's a AI program, his only purpuse is to try to find Zion, and when he does that, he doesn't leave the Matrix, he is deleted. Ergo, how can he leave the matrix? Perhaps the Bane thing? But isn't that a self-defeating strategy?
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
My interpretation of "leaving the Matrix" was that he'd rather be shut off than have to endure the "stink" of humans.

The other thing is, Smith likens humanity to a virus in the first movie. The second movie not only shows him as a hypocrite (he multiplies himself much like a virus) but the fact that he "becomes" that which he hates by possessing Bane.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
I also see certain things as outside the matrix, even though they're technically not. I imagine all the stuff with the Merovingian as being sort of in the netherrealm between the Matrix and real world.
 

Ghost

Emperor
The Merovingian is an ''old'' and perhaps ''outdated'' program, i think about the whole stuff as a part of the matrix controlled by him.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
I think he's like Windows XP. They can't get rid of it, but it serves no purpose. Aha, a stupid M$ joke, what this thread needed.

Now, to what happened in the end. * SPOILER *

Neo was able to "hack" into the reality. That can only happen if:

a) reality is actually a matrix (be that another matrix, the same matrix, or whatever)

b) he as actual superpowers - somehow part of the code is inside him and he can command the machines outside the matrix in the "real" world

The matrix theory has something going for it: Smith inside Bane. It's much simpler for a program to hack into a virtual version of someone than an actual person. Not that it matters to Matrix, what is more of fantasy really - what gives more strenght to the Matrix theory.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Delance
a) reality is actually a matrix (be that another matrix, the same matrix, or whatever)

b) he as actual superpowers - somehow part of the code is inside him and he can command the machines outside the matrix in the "real" world
A has troubles because it doesn't allow for the series to be concluded. Nomatter what you do, you never know if you really "escaped" the Matrix. That might be alright, but I think that'd be something less of a fulfilling ending.

B could work on a few levels. Either his experience within the Matrix gave him powers.. Or perhaps his innate powers are why he is The One inside the Matrix after all.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by ChrisReid
A has troubles because it doesn't allow for the series to be concluded. Nomatter what you do, you never know if you really "escaped" the Matrix. That might be alright, but I think that'd be something less of a fulfilling ending.
I agree, but that is what Matrix Reloaded was all about. It's a loophole. The Prophecy is a planned event so they can control the imperfection of the Matrix. Zion is a security system that works for the machines. It's like the 1984 novel, where the leader of the rebels works for the government. Some of the leaders of the council may or may be aware of this. The council is very concerned that Neo finds his way to complete the prophecy, perhaps because it’s the only way he can remake Zion. Or maybe they don't know anything, either way Zion could be a fail safe like the architect implied.

However, I think Neo took the "wrong" door, so there's a chance he'll find a way out for mankind. Not only beat the matrix, but beat the fail-safe as well. I don't think he was supposed to do that sunt on the "real" world. Remember, the Matrix is on the 6th version, and in the Bible the world took 6 days to be made.

B could work on a few levels. Either his experience within the Matrix gave him powers.. Or perhaps his innate powers are why he is The One inside the Matrix after all.
Correct. However, his experience with the Matrix is about bending and breaking the rules of a computer simultion. That cannot work on reality. The best hacker can't hack the "gravity" system and fly on the real world. You can't turn the real world clipping off and walk throught walls.

It would also be very interesting.

Or maybe everything is a simulation. Maybe the humans won the war by making the Matrix so the machines would think they won. Maybe everyone on the Matrix is a machine, fighting an imaginary war. But that would be very bizarre.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
I think one way they could take it would be the counter the Reloaded stuff.. Whereas Reloaded ultimately discounted the Prophecy entirely.. it could yet be that Revolutions takes that stuff, changes it a bit, and has Neo end up fulfilling it.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
The prophecy was a trap, a bust. It was a set-up, they waved it off on Reloaded. What can happen is that Neo can go beyond all that. Not only he must break free from what he thought was reality, but also break free from what was expected of him. He has to break free of the "prophecy". The prophecy was meant so the Matrix could eventually control those who would normally escape it. It has been done, they say, 6 times. They made this Prophecy thing up so the "chosen one" would fall to a trap and the rebellion would be defeated, as before. Neo must break free of this. The Matrix, Zion and Prophecy are a system of control. For mankind to break free, Neo has to make the revolutions.

Also a note: On both A and B, Zion is a control mechanism of the architect. It doesn’t matter if it’s real or not, just that it's perceived as such by the 1% of the people that the Matrix can't control.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Delance
The prophecy was a trap, a bust. It was a set-up, they waved it off on Reloaded.
Exactly.. so it be quite a twist if Neo came back and actually fulfilled it in Revolutions.
 

Rostek

Spaceman
The Matrix - Reloaded... better than the first? quite possibly!! This movie kicks donkey (think of another word that means donkey) !!

Originally posted by jammyo2k

However, one problem WHERE THE HELL WAS TANK!?
If you listen to Links conversation with his wife, Zee (Tank's sister), she says that she has lost two brothers already to that ship (half a polo to the first person to correctly spell it =D), we know (fact) that Dozer (sp?) died because of Sypher, so it's possible that Tank also died later from his injuries...
 

Talyn 83

Spaceman
The prophecy was true. Its just that they misunderstood. If everything had gone to plan, the war would have been over. The machines would have won.

Neo wasnt just a means to correct the flaw in the Matrix's programming. The Architect said that himself. Neo was like... the culmination of a redundant, recursive anomaly-algorithm in the Matrix if that makes sense.

As for him being able to control the machines in the outside world, that makes sense to me. He met the Architect inside the machine mainframe. It would make sense that part of him could stay behind without him knowing (much like Agent Smith thought Neo had left a part of him inside of him. "Maybe something was copied...overwritten"). And the part of him that gets left behind in the mainframe would be able to control the machines. The part that gets left behind knows what Neo would/is going to do in the real world. Hence he would, so to speak, make it so. But not really make it so, because it was already meant to be that way. That would make Neo sensing the machines not him having a link with the machines, but as him just seeing what is going to happen ("you have the sight now"). And remember he has those visions about what will happen in the Matrix to trinity when he's sleeping in the real world!

And seeing as how he was suddenly waaaaaaaaaay stronger when he left the Mainframe inside the Matrix, this theory makes even more sense. Also, the start of the degradation of the Matrix could play some sort of role in his newfound ability.

OK..I'm gonna stop now. Getting all woozy here....:D
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
All very interesting ideas, folks, but I'm prepared to wait for Revolutions for the answers. And it's just as well that I've seen it now, because you might want to stick a spoiler warning on this thread's subject header too.
 

Cam

Spaceman
Looks like there's gonna be some major man/machine action in Revolutions. You even see that exoskeleton/mech bot guy from the dock gate that the Neb came through have a go at the machines. Looks to be a wicked ending!
 
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