Matrix Reloaded (some spoilers of course)

Have you watched it?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 28 66.7%
  • Uhmm... not yet.

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • Watch what?

    Votes: 4 9.5%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by Talyn 83
Neo wasnt just a means to correct the flaw in the Matrix's programming. The Architect said that himself.
Not quite. Neo was a theat, the Prophecy was a way to control this threat. It was a trap. He could either give up and play the game and then assure a enslaved but alive humanity, or risk everything for freedom. I guess the name of the third movie indicates he chose the later.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
I've read stuff like this before. But Neo is human, that's the whole point.

Architect to Neo: "You remain irrevocably human".

Some of the other stuff can make sense, but this part is stated over and over again. If this isn't true, there's no reason to beleive anything else ever said on the movies is.
 

Ghost

Emperor
He could be irrevocably human, but his mind and other mental things changed by the machines when he was created.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Has anyone else considered that the Architect was just giving disinformation?
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Anyone can be giving misinformation on the movie. But why would they spend millions of dollars to make a movie that would culminate in a practical joke?

What the Architect said made perfect sense to explain what everyone else has. There’s no reason to think he was not telling the truth and everyone else was, especially since the whole point of the prophecy was to get to him.

The prophecy said that the chosen one reaching the source would end the war, and that much was true, just not in the way they thought it was.

If the Architect was telling the truth, the prophecy was not "true". If he were telling a lie, it would still not be true. Either way, it doesn't matter; the prophecy was not what they thought it was. When Neo got to the source, it didn't automatically end the war and mankind was not automatically free.

For that to happen, something other than simply "fulfilling the prophecy" will have to happen.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Delance
The prophecy said that the chosen one reaching the source would end the war, and that much was true, just not in the way they thought it was.

If the Architect was telling the truth, the prophecy was not "true". If he were telling a lie, it would still not be true. Either way, it doesn't matter; the prophecy was not what they thought it was. When Neo got to the source, it didn't automatically end the war and mankind was not automatically free.
These sorts of things are always subject to interpretation. I don't recall the Prophecy being quite so specific. "The source" could be the Architect's video room, or it could be "the source of the problems" sort of thing. Obviously the prophecy wasn't exactly what they were thinking and was seemingly debunked, but after looking at it from a different angle I think it'll ultimately show that Neo does accomplish what the prophecy basically says.
 

TC

SubCrid
Originally posted by ChrisReid
"The source" could be the Architect's video room, or it could be "the source of the problems" sort of thing.
Wow, I assumed source, as in source code... I mean, the whole discription is basically using him as a bugfix... I didn't even consider that it could possibly be something else.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I vaguely recall Morpheus saying something about the coming of The One "hailing the destruction of the Matrix" in the original movie. Is that quote right? If that's so, then from what I understand, Neo was supposed to fulfil the Prophecy by destroying the 6th Matrix and starting a 7th one. Or something like that.

The whole discussion with the Architect went a little too fast for me. From what I remember, Neo had two 'choices': to do as his predecessor had and save Zion by restarting the Matrix, or save Trinity and let Zion be destroyed. Is that right? And has Zion been completely destroyed? That bit didn't come through very clearly for me.
 

TC

SubCrid
Those were basically the choices, but it was also said that if Neo didn't restart the Matrix, all the humans in the Matrix would die and, since they were going to destroy Zion, humanity as a race would end.

It didn't appear to be clearly stated, but Zion doesn't seem to be quite destroyed yet... rather, their one hope of some sort of counterattack was thwarted, leaving them with nothing to strike back with and at the mercy of the machines
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I take it restarting the Matrix is an attempt to stamp out the anomalous code that is The One. Why? Obviously the Architect couldn't do it in six goes, so what makes it think it can do it in the seventh try?

Also, in refusing to start a new Matrix, Neo has effectively doomed Zion and the current Matrix, right? How is it that the people in the current Matrix will die? I thought restarting the Matrix would kill everyone else anyway.
 

TC

SubCrid
Originally posted by Wedge009
I take it restarting the Matrix is an attempt to stamp out the anomalous code that is The One. Why? Obviously the Architect couldn't do it in six goes, so what makes it think it can do it in the seventh try?


Because otherwise the Matrix dies... he needs to restart it anyway, so it doesn't break, so you might as well try to fix it.

Also, in refusing to start a new Matrix, Neo has effectively doomed Zion and the current Matrix, right? How is it that the people in the current Matrix will die? I thought restarting the Matrix would kill everyone else anyway.
Zion is pretty screwed in both of the suggested scenarios, in both it gets smashed, but if Neo co-operates he gets to restart it with a handful of people. People in the Matrix will, apparantly, die if Neo doesn't co-operate because the matrix will collapse, instead of being properly restarted. Restarting it properly doesn't kill the people in the Matrix, it just starts it over again.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
The Matrix is falling apart? Why, and when did the Architect say that? I must have missed it.

Also, Neo is supposed to pick a handful of people to restart the Matrix. How does that leave the rest alive? Or is the choosing of people supposed to mean that they are freed from the Matrix?

It's all quite confusing but, off to class now!
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Originally posted by Wedge009
I take it restarting the Matrix is an attempt to stamp out the anomalous code that is The One. Why? Obviously the Architect couldn't do it in six goes, so what makes it think it can do it in the seventh try?
Each one progressively stamps out "bugs" and allows greater flexibility given the choice factor. If you followed the Architect, the very first Matrix was absolutely perfect.. but humans introduced chance and chaos to it.. so each iteration of the Matrix has introduced methods to counterbalance these forces (such as the creation of Zion)

Also, in refusing to start a new Matrix, Neo has effectively doomed Zion and the current Matrix, right? How is it that the people in the current Matrix will die? I thought restarting the Matrix would kill everyone else anyway.
Nope.. they're alive in the Matrix or they're alive in Zion. By making the choice he makes, the Matrix will fall apart and Zion won't be repopulated.

The Matrix is falling apart? Why, and when did the Architect say that? I must have missed it.?
Mmm.. people are introducing Revolutions spoilers.. There are already some behind-the-screens magazine articles and such with spoilers.

Also, Neo is supposed to pick a handful of people to restart the Matrix. How does that leave the rest alive? Or is the choosing of people supposed to mean that they are freed from the Matrix??
He would be choosing people who'd be free of the Matrix, and that's separate from the rest living or dying. The Matrix as it was was ready to break, so not restarting the 7th Matrix would cause them to die.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Originally posted by Delance
Anyone can be giving misinformation on the movie. But why would they spend millions of dollars to make a movie that would culminate in a practical joke?
"The Usual Suspects" was a good example of that. "Ishtar" was a BAD example of that.

I'd also like to point out that the "Enter The Matrix" game has let a few minor spoilers out, mostly dealing with the Oracle and the explaination they give after they were forced to recast her when the original actress died between filming. Oh, and a connection between Trinity and Niboe's right hand man Ghost.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
The Oracle actress died? That's so sad. But the Oracle still makes an appearance in Revolutions?

Originally posted by ChrisReid
...the creation of Zion...
A friend was just explaining something about that to me. Is that what the Architect was referring to about the 1% of people who refuse to accept the Matrix?

Originally posted by ChrisReid
...the Matrix will fall apart and Zion won't be repopulated.
Won't be repopulated. After the Machines blow it up. What I don't understand is if they allowed Zion to survive to counter the disruption free Humans would cause within the Matrix, why can't they have access to it? Agent Smith was getting all crazy about getting into Zion's mainframe in the original.

Originally posted by ChrisReid
Mmm.. people are introducing Revolutions spoilers..
Grrr...

Originally posted by ChrisReid
He would be choosing people who'd be free of the Matrix...
Which would follow with Morpheus' understanding that The One freed the first people from the Matrix. I see now (I think).
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
They give a good explaination, but I don't know if I should post it on here since I don't know what happens in Revolutions.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
No one should know what happens in Revolutions besides the 'inside' people?

Probably best not to post anything Revolutions-related here - it might be worth starting another thread with a spoiler warning.
 
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