Lucasfilm Half-Asses Original Trilogy DVDs

[LeHah]

In case any of you were living in a Wampa Ice Cave yesterday, Lucasfilm announced they will release the Original Trilogy in it's original edit in Fall 2006

But heres the problem. These brand new DVDs will be using ancient video masters. Jim Ward, of Lucasfilms, comments: "The original films' video quality will not match up to that of the restored versions. 'It is state of the art, as of 1993, and that's not as good as state of the art 2006,' Ward says." That quote can be found in this articlefrom USA Today.

Some of the worst official dvd releases out there for movies have simply been laser masters dumped onto dvd with no care involved. And that's exactly what we'll be getting from the company that at one time was at the forefront of producing quality presentations.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

So they changed their mind and finally released the thing everyone on the internet was e-demanding and they *still* can't win? What a surprise.

 

[privfan]

I already have them
ripped from the laserdiscs and bought off ebay

 

[Halman]

Hehehehe, what the hell LeHah? They looked fine in 1993, and it's exactly what everyone on the internet has been demanding since DVDs were invented.

 

[PopsiclePete]

I already have them ripped from the laserdiscs and bought off ebay

But the laserdisc version doesn't look better than the VHS last re-release before the [altered] special editions.

 

[LeHah]

They looked fine in 1993, and it's exactly what everyone on the internet has been demanding since DVDs were invented.

They looked fine on VHS because we didn't know what DVD would look like. Now they're putting a lower quality restoration on a higher capacity medium. Theres going to be a lot of grain and drained color quality.

People demanded the original edit. It would stand to reason that people also wanted a digitally restored DVD. I mean, MGM puts out beautifully restored movies on DVD for no more than $10. Why is it so hard for Lucasfilm to do things right?

 

[Delance]

What do you prefer, Lehah?

Han shoots first - Low Quality
Greedo shoots first - Medium Quality
They shoot at the same time - High Quality

 

[PopsiclePete]

hehehe

 

[LeHah]

What do you prefer, Lehah?

People who don't confuse snarky comments with intelligence

 

[Bandit LOAF]

The article you're citing doesn't seem to say what you're claiming, though -- Ward is comparing the old version to the new version for a populist newspaper... it's entirely imaginable that he's referring to the fact that the original has models on strings and landspeeders with goo under them instead of 3D models... he's talking to USA Today, not some kind of hobbyist magazine whose audience would appreciate the difference between film prints, video transfers, DVD masters and so forth (and he mentions none of these things, anyway). (This is even suggested by the rest of his conversation - which is about defending this decision against claims that Lucas is changing his mind about which is the preferable version).

All this implies is what we know already, which is that they did a major restoration of the original prints in 1993 -- if that has been kept well and is given a DVD transfer, it's perfect.

 

[LeHah]

All this implies is what we know already, which is that they did a major restoration of the original prints in 1993 -- if that has been kept well and is given a DVD transfer, it's perfect.

It's occurred to me that almost everyone has seen the 1993 version that was released on laserdisc, but no one has seen what the same transfer, directly from that master, will look like on DVD. However, I still think Lucasfilm should make it a point to do the best job they can by putting out the product and this seems like a half-assed job. They make it a point to mention the remixed sound - but no mention of the video transfer/remaster.

I think with Lucasfilm's roundabout way of doing things in the last 8 years, my skepticism is well founded, given the truely bizzare nature of the treatment of Star Wars.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I'm all for questioning authority, but I think this goes a bit beyond that -- we're finally getting what we want and we're immediately angry about it. If it ends up sucking, fine, we can yell quite a bit... but I think an announcement that changes the Star Wars release playing field in such a manner should be treated with, at the very least, cautious optimism until we know more. At least until we find out if it's the 1993 print or the 1993 laserdisc transfer that's being used... and frankly, nothing implies the latter so far.

You're correct in saying that movies that just copy their laserdisc transfers frequently look crummy... but at the same time, very few movies get newly cleaned up prints. One that's been cleaned up, even if it was ten years ago, should look as good as anything else on the market.

 

[LeHah]

...we're finally getting what we want and we're immediately angry about it.

Well, again, the Lucasfilm track record for this kind of thing is notoriously spotty. At the risk of sounding like a generic internet person, it's almost as if Lucasfilm goes out of it's way to make some awful things for Star Wars. The 2004 DVD covers, the second-rate bonus DVD, the additions (Boba Fett's voice change) and the deletions (Old Anakin at the end of ROTJ) haven't exactly done anything to bolster fandom.

I think it also stands to reason that in this year of 2006 - the public expects a digital remastering for something to go to DVD. Why is it that I can go to a store and get something like The Vikings for $10 and have the movie digitally remastered to look better than ever - but I'm supposedly being given 13 year old laserdisc masters to one of our generation's biggest movies?

I'm surely not saying that Star Wars fandom is right about everything they say - but as a DVD buyer, I don't think it's unreasonable to get what I want either.

You're correct in saying that movies that just copy their laserdisc transfers frequently look crummy... but at the same time, very few movies get newly cleaned up prints. One that's been cleaned up, even if it was ten years ago, should look as good as anything else on the market.

And I really hope you're right. I'd like nothing more than to eat crow in this case. But truth be told, Lucasfilm's history with it's biggest property hasn't been very kind to it's legacy.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Well, again, the Lucasfilm track record for this kind of thing is notoriously spotty. At the risk of sounding like a generic internet person, it's almost as if Lucasfilm goes out of it's way to make some awful things for Star Wars. The 2004 DVD covers, the second-rate bonus DVD, the additions (Boba Fett's voice change) and the deletions (Old Anakin at the end of ROTJ) haven't exactly done anything to bolster fandom.

Eh, the argument for those things goes every possible direction -- but as far as I can see, all we know about this current decision is that they're doing *exactly* what internet-people (distinct from real-people) have been demanding.

I think it also stands to reason that in this year of 2006 - the public expects a digital remastering for something to go to DVD. Why is it that I can go to a store and get something like The Vikings for $10 and have the movie digitally remastered to look better than ever - but I'm supposedly being given 13 year old laserdisc masters to one of our generation's biggest movies?

A digital remastering usually just means it was transferred from a film print to a DVD... which is, in all likelyhood, exactly what will happen here. There's no evidence anywhere that they're going to involve laserdisc masters in this -- they were a *product* of the 1993 restoration, not an end result. Why not assume, based on the same vague quote, that this will be based on the 1993 *VHS* masters? Or some Asian-market VCD masters? Deciding that the laserdiscs factor into this at all is an odd thing to do - because no one has said this.

 

[Delance]

People who don't confuse snarky comments with intelligence

So you hate yourself, what is not good, but not surprising.

If you don't want it, don't buy it. That's how the free market works. Complaining about it on internet forums is the least useful thing you could possibly do.

LucasArts will give the public what they think it's best. If the public don't like it, a new, better company will show up. It's not like a particular IP has some religious meaning.

 

[meisdavidp]

If you don't want it, don't buy it. That's how the free market works. Complaining about it on internet forums is the least useful thing you could possibly do.

LucasArts will give the public what they think it's best. If the public don't like it, a new, better company will show up. It's not like a particular IP has some religious meaning.

I agree that LeHah may be taking this a little far (especially considering that he's posting this complaint in a way and place that serve more to draw attention to himself), however I think you underestimate the power of the force. I was raised on Star Wars. Without SW, I might never have become the social maladroit I am today. I think that LeHah is entitled to feel betrayed by Lucas. I myself was greatly put off by the prequels. The thing is, whether new or old school, SW fans have a deep connection with the series. You see the same thing in most (good) science fiction series. Just have a look at Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek or Firefly. This extends to other genres as well (e.g. Buffy, Angel, Xena, ER, Alias, Monk, etc.). Simply put, IP has (or at least can have) a great deal of impact.

All that said, I still don't see why LeHah persists in arguing with a brick wall. I could see this discussion making sense IF LOAF or anyone else here had any control over the matter. I can also see making that initial post in frustration. But turning this into an extended arguement over specifics that neither LeHah, LOAF, or for that matter anyone else on these forums likely know seems pointless.

Just my two cents.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

I think there's more important reasons as to why this argument shouldn't be made. Specifically, because Lucas' opinion has consistently been that people will complain no matter what -- that they're not really so interested in getting the original Star Wars as they are having something they can say is wrong... and when the immediate response to an entirely positive announcement is to *assume* that something must be wrong and immediately complain without any evidence of anything really just supports that original thought.

 

[LeHah]

So you hate yourself, what is not good, but not surprising.

Why is it you're the only one here not making constructive posts about anything remotely involving this topic?

I agree that LeHah may be taking this a little far (especially considering that he's posting this complaint in a way and place that serve more to draw attention to himself)

Well, I started this thread to make a topic of discussion/debate. I stand by my warry attitude towards Lucasfilm given that outside of the Indiana Jones set, I've been truely underwhelmed toward their DVD properties.

But turning this into an extended arguement over specifics that neither LeHah, LOAF, or for that matter anyone else on these forums likely know seems pointless.

I couldn't disagree more. Whats wrong in being worried that your all-time favorite movie is going to be mistreated again?

I think there's more important reasons as to why this argument shouldn't be made. Specifically, because Lucas' opinion has consistently been that people will complain no matter what -- that they're not really so interested in getting the original Star Wars as they are having something they can say is wrong... and when the immediate response to an entirely positive announcement is to *assume* that something must be wrong and immediately complain without any evidence of anything really just supports that original thought.

You know through talking to me that I really could not care less about Star Wars fandom. I actually agree with Lucas's attitudes towards fans - but I have to adamently disagree with how he's treating the Star Wars property. You know, I have absolutely no qualms with buying the Original Trilogy a second time if it's the original versions - but I do have problems if he's making them available only in lesser quality. I'm worried and I started this thread in the hopes of making a discussion of it- and for some reason, certain people here decided to be jerks instead of making any kind of point.

I'm a movie buff. There are certain things I expect from my DVDs - remastered video, remastered audio and subtitles are the most basic things. MGM DVDs have these options and for $10 a shot, I couldn't be happier. I'd expect bigger, better things from Lucasfilm - only to be let down by this announcement. Perhaps it is early to pass judgement on this release, but given the history of SW DVDs, something is probably amiss.

As a person who grew up with Star Wars, I want to be satisfied, not placated.

 

[Delance]

Simply put, IP has (or at least can have) a great deal of impact.

It shouldn't have. And if SW was sacred and Lucas was a religious leader, it would make less sense to complain. Perhaps it should drive you away from relation with IP, what is a good thing.

I think EP3 was horrible and devalued the whole series. So what? Maybe it means that TESB was so good because Lucas had so little involvement with it. I don't know. The Original DVDs had some sound bugs on the 5.1 track. Maybe the new ones will suck too. Or maybe not. I own the 93 VHS version, and it's great. Maybe they'll adapt the remastered version, and not the end product. But either way, it should have good quality. Let's wait and see. But, apparently, no matter what you do, someone on the Internet will be bitching about it.

 

[ChrisReid]

I think it also stands to reason that in this year of 2006 - the public expects a digital remastering for something to go to DVD.

In this year of 2006 - the public has no idea what the term "digital remastering" really means. If you told everyone that something was digitally remastered, they'd love it and only movie buffs like you would ever know whether it actually was or not.