I want a Rapier and Dralthi for Christmas please.

[DyNaMiX]

You know maybe we should all get together over lunch or something and we might just get something done after all

From DyNaMiX's original post i got the impression that he's after those models based of the WCM. Simply get a hold of a couple of good model kits (English Electric Lightning and an A-10 Warthog) and the rest is fairly obvious. If i wasn't so lazy I'd try it out myself.

Yep I was after the movie ones but I'd settle for the others. The reason I chose them was because I was thinking of an idea recently mentioned. Measuring the peices and then simply cutting them out of plastic and assembling myself.

I know I wouldn't mind an Excalibur sitting on my desk. Then I can tell my mates about how I flew one to Kilrah on a certain mission.

 

[criticalmass]

It may be an old idea, but has anyone ever tried to use the Pepakura Designer on some 3D models? I know there are paper models of some fighters around, but others should be feasible - if they're somewhat solid, keeping the Rapier problem in mind.

If you build one of those models, spray it with lacquer or resin, and paint it afterwards, the result should be better than whittling each single piece from a soda can.

 

[Aplha 1-1]

I've tried it but cant say im all to pleased with the detail, its a severe pain in the ass to use with more detailed .3ds files and even so, small details get lost in the medium
But recently I've been experimenting with it (for lack of a better CAD program and the skills to use one) to get a good idea of the nets of a certain ship (hint: she's no concordia )

 

[Kilrah]

Well, having a beautiful plastic model of a WC ship would certainly be very nice.
So, I have just sent a mail to a friend that works in rapid prototyping. When he replies I’ll be able to tell you if it’s possible and how munch it would cost. Obviously that geometry issues and size are important in this case, it will determine the cost and it’s viability.
In the mail I’ve attached the WC2 Rapier picture that was posted by Marc. As it has some complexity it should be a good example for my friend. But even if the Rapier geometry is too complex or fragile I am certain that an Excalibur or a Longbow shouldn’t be problematic.

Let’s hope it isn’t too expensive.

 

[Maj.Striker]

keep us informed...I'm sure we would all be interested in you friend's reply.

 

[Kilrah]

He replied. I’m afraid the news aren’t very good.
It seems it would be possible although there could be some problems with very thin parts; those wings in the Rapier could be a problem (if it’s a small model). Therefore, in my opinion and as I said before, it should be chosen something like the Excalibur, Longbow or even a Thunderbolt; well even so there’s a lot of possibilities.
But the worst part is yet to come, it’s very expensive. He hasn’t give numbers because for that it’s needed a 3D model in STL or IGES format. I’m going to try to convert a model in one of this formats but I’m not sure how to do it yet. If someone has one and is generous enough to share it things would go faster and we would find out how it would really cost.

 

[Edfilho]

Such a thing would require a mold, which we don't have.

And a carrier would have to be about the size of a straight rig 18 wheeler if you want it to be to scale.

Not if you use the scale in the WC3 game engine

I do think that the WC3 models are very appropriate for this endeavor, considering that they are of simpler geometry than the previous and later fighters. And the Excalibur is a beauty.

 

[Maj.Striker]

Hmm, converting to that format might not be a problem provided it is similar to .obj or .3ds etc. I must admit I've not heard of the formats mentioned but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't an importer exporter somewhere. You would probably have to merge your model into one solid object before exporting though. Also, what is your definition of expensive? Say you could get them to run 1000 copies. (Now granted the size of your mold is going to make a big difference there but assume you did it on a miniatures size of 1/72), I wouldn't doubt you'd be able to sell 1000 of them here to local members of the CIC...

 

[LeHah]

Not if you use the scale in the WC3 game engine

At least until you see the gross disperportion between the game engine's "Victory" and a cutscene rendering

 

[Marc]

...it’s needed a 3D model in STL or IGES format.

I can convert models in STL using AC3D. That's the good news. The bad news is that I don't have any of the WC3 fighter models except for the Excalibur (witch isn't even mine). I do however have the LightCarrier, Cruiser and destroyer models (those are mine, but the textures suck). If all else fails, I'll send them to you by using Gmail.

 

[Howard Day]

http://www.3darttopart.com/index.php

There you go. You can take that as a basic prototype model, and then use the model created by that basic model to mass-produce a bunch of acrylic/ foam models.
Well, that may be an oversimlification. That's the basic idea, though.
You can deliver to them a .3ds model - as long as it's had STL check run on it and come out clean (No mesh holes, all overlapping geometry), you're good to go.
I'd love to help out on this - doing either the CF-117 Rapier or the Rapier II - and any measure of the other fighters. If only making sure the models are up to snuff.
Good Luck!

 

[Kilrah]

Hmm, converting to that format might not be a problem provided it is similar to .obj or .3ds etc. I must admit I've not heard of the formats mentioned but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't an importer exporter somewhere. You would probably have to merge your model into one solid object before exporting though.

No problem in the conversion; MAX can convert to the STL format. I’ve already sent an example to my friend, my Strakha model.

Also, what is your definition of expensive? Say you could get them to run 1000 copies. (Now granted the size of your mold is going to make a big difference there but assume you did it on a miniatures size of 1/72), I wouldn't doubt you'd be able to sell 1000 of them here to local members of the CIC...

My definition of expensive should be clarified as soon as my friend studies the model. Also, this technique doesn’t involve a mould, it’s called stereolithography (I hope it’s well translated) and it’s basically a laser that transforms a resin in the 3D model. It’s purpose isn’t mass production, that’s why it’s name is rapid prototyping, it’s usually used when someone wants to see the final product of a project before it goes into production.

 

[Aplha 1-1]

I’ve already sent an example to my friend, my Strakha model.

Better make sure it's a big model, those things tend to be easy to loose and a pain in the ass to find again

 

[Sarty]

My definition of expensive should be clarified as soon as my friend studies the model. Also, this technique doesn’t involve a mould, it’s called stereolithography (I hope it’s well translated) and it’s basically a laser that transforms a resin in the 3D model. It’s purpose isn’t mass production, that’s why it’s name is rapid prototyping, it’s usually used when someone wants to see the final product of a project before it goes into production.

Yes you spelled it right. I too am a machinist and we have a Stereolithography machine in our shop. The computer splits the model up into layers roughly 4 thousandths of an inch thick, then the machine hardens one layer at a time with a laser, slowly building the model. You are correct that this is purely for prototype work too, and it will be expensive. The build time for a model like a Rapier would be close to 20 hours, with several hours of finish work too. SLA resins can be VERY brittle too, so be careful. I don't know what my shop charges for SLA models since I don't run the machine, but I do know that one gallon of resin costs around $5,000 so don't expect it to be anywhere near cheap.

 

[DyNaMiX]

Yes you spelled it right. I too am a machinist and we have a Stereolithography machine in our shop. The computer splits the model up into layers roughly 4 thousandths of an inch thick, then the machine hardens one layer at a time with a laser, slowly building the model. You are correct that this is purely for prototype work too, and it will be expensive. The build time for a model like a Rapier would be close to 20 hours, with several hours of finish work too. SLA resins can be VERY brittle too, so be careful. I don't know what my shop charges for SLA models since I don't run the machine, but I do know that one gallon of resin costs around $5,000 so don't expect it to be anywhere near cheap.

They don't have any uhh.... second hand resin you can get?

 

[Maj.Striker]

http://www.3darttopart.com/index.php

There you go. You can take that as a basic prototype model, and then use the model created by that basic model to mass-produce a bunch of acrylic/ foam models.
Well, that may be an oversimlification. That's the basic idea, though.
You can deliver to them a .3ds model - as long as it's had STL check run on it and come out clean (No mesh holes, all overlapping geometry), you're good to go.
I'd love to help out on this - doing either the CF-117 Rapier or the Rapier II - and any measure of the other fighters. If only making sure the models are up to snuff.
Good Luck!

That is awesome, Howard!!! Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried having one of your awesome models prototyped with this company? I'd love to see what they would look like!

Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but after reading their submission guidelines it would seem that they can't or won't accept any models with any type of holes in them...I would guess that would mean like gun barrels can't have holes, engine exhausts etc. That would suck trying to make it compliant.

 

[PopsiclePete]

Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but after reading their submission guidelines it would seem that they can't or won't accept any models with any type of holes in them...I would guess that would mean like gun barrels can't have holes, engine exhausts etc. That would suck trying to make it compliant.

They mean 3D mesh hole, meaning the model has to be properly "closed". It doesn't mean you can't model a "pit" in the end mount of the gun barrels.

 

[criticalmass]

Has anyone asked them for a quote yet?

As a comparison: A used 3D printer is between 10-25k$, without materials. Quite some business case.

 

[Maj.Striker]

Yeah, I was going to say...you can buy a brand Zcorp printer (apparently they are some of the best in this business) for $25K. Pretty pricey considering you'll probably pay $100 in materials to build your model. Still, this is some seriously sweet technology.

 

[Howard Day]

It's about 80 bucks for a good sized model. the resin and mold materials will probably run you another 100 bucks. The finished toy wouldn't be cheap - assume 15-20 bucks to make and ship - if someone wanted to make a profit off this, you could probably set the total price at 45 bucks. Assuming the demand is high enough. You probably wouldn't paint it - but you could probably use any modern printer and make a bunch of self-stick decals and hull drips and such. Seems reasonable. you'd have to spend some time doing it, though.