I think one has to look over Blair's life since the destruction of Kilrah. Relationships didn't work out. He was an alcoholic. He spent time fighting other humans in the Border Worlds conflict. 12 or so years after the war ended, give or take, and what did his life amount to? Sure he was the greatest hero of Confed, Heart of the Tiger and all, but what did he have to live for? Didn't seem to have a family, passion for flying all burnt out. If he really did want to die I can sympathize, although I might not altogether approve...
I must know....
- Thread starter Iceman2225
- Start date
I wasn't implying that the "suicide" angle wasn't a plausible end. I just fail to see how anyone can be so convinced of that ending. I could see that Blair had old wounds opened by the bugs - that was effectively portrayed - but I didn't see anything in those cutscenes that led me to suspect that he was open to suicide. Why is the possibility that he really was trying to escape in that final scene so hard to believe?
Just out of curiousity, where did that imply come from?
As for Blair's odd reluctance to flee for his fighter, my own personal feeling is that the Nephilim became his personal obsession. They ransacked his mind and performed various physical experiments on him. That would have to leave a mark on someone, and I would guess that he was more scared of the bug than he was of the imminent collapse of the wormhole.
I think its a lousy way for Blair to go, but I'd probably have been disappointed no matter how he went. I'm also fairly certain that I'll be disappointed no matter what ends up happening to Maniac.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
I can't seem to find my Voices of War to confirm this, but somewhere in there it mentions that one of the Lexington's crew received a set of pilot's wings from Shotglass after Mang.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think anyone would go as far as claiming that Blair commited suicide -- that would certainly go against his heroic image. What he did was simply stop trying to live. Consider: time and time again Blair has met the enemy and been willing to sacrafice himself to save the Confederation, his friends, his way of life. Every time he's made the conscious decision to accept that he will probably not live -- and every time he's been "lucky" enough to survive. Consider what he mentioned after being rescued:
"They dredged up memories: Telamon, Admiral Tolwyn, the destruction of Kilrah, Angel."
Telamon - The idea that the job is never truly over. Blair saved the universe, etc, etc -- but even when it was all over, he got called back because humans were slaughtering eachother. Telamon is the reminder that horrific war is a cycle which can only be broken by escaping it.
Admiral Tolwyn - Another hero who outlived his usefullness. Who couldn't understand what he'd had to do. Like Blair and Hawk, Tolwyn was someone troubled and ruined by war - Tolwyn represents Blair's darkest fears for what he might become.
The destruction of Kilrah - Blair's sin which drove him to drink and ruined his comprehension of the universe. The ultimate paradox, his winning a horrible war by performing a horrible act.
And finally Angel - most obviously, his friend and lover. More importantly, a fellow warrior who risked everything to win the war. But the horrors of what she was responsible for do not bother Angel -- she escaped the circle exemplified by Telamon...
<Casey> But, who are they?
<Blair> Death.
Blair disables the shield tower. He turns towards his shuttle. There's a young man on the ground, a dead marine. Perhaps there is some revelation in this, the idea that death is a constant. Blair stops. He's done his job. There's a new generation of heroes willing to sacrafice themselves. He deserves a rest...
The Shadow
Spaceman
i personally believe that Blair is still alive because of that Nephilem tower that drifted through the wormhole in the last cutscene, however i believe this was done in order to leave the option of Blair surviving (and returning) open in case the creators wanted to bring him back in the next game or whatever.
i dont think Blair wanted to commit suicide.... sure he was suffering but i dont know.... i just cant see him committing suicide. everyone says that maybe he voluteered for the last mission because he knew he would prolly died and wanted to anyway. but let me ask you this.... dont you all think that he would have volunteered anyway? regardless of whether he wanted to die or not Blair is a HERO... a bonofide hero and i believe he would have volunteered anyway.
although i think he lived i wouldnt be dissapointed if that was his death. it was a heroic death and i think the character deserved nothing less... im also very happy that he wasnt killed in a cockpit! Blair is the best flyer there ever was and there is NO WAY someone could nail him in a cockpit.... he had to die outside of one. its just like how he was captured eariler in the game.... he had to be out of a cockpit, there's no way someome could have disabled/touched his fighter
i would have really liked to see a funeral scene for Blair if the writer's had intended that last cutscene to be his death. i think THAT would have been a very emotional experience for any WC fan in which some lovely words could have been said about the great hero of the confederation.
i also would rather Blair die heroically as he did than simply grow old and never be heard of again.... its just not right.... Blair couldnt keep away from Confed and it would be cruel to let his character retire and disappear. i was uncomfortable with him being in the navy as a retired flyer in WCP but who here did not expect him to jump back in the cockpit for one last mission? he couldnt stay away.... it is all he knows how to do!
if WCPSO is the last wing commander game to ever be made then i will assume Blair did die because it gives good closure to his character. but until i know for sure it will be the last game (you never know!) i will assume that he is still out there somewhere
i dont think Blair wanted to commit suicide.... sure he was suffering but i dont know.... i just cant see him committing suicide. everyone says that maybe he voluteered for the last mission because he knew he would prolly died and wanted to anyway. but let me ask you this.... dont you all think that he would have volunteered anyway? regardless of whether he wanted to die or not Blair is a HERO... a bonofide hero and i believe he would have volunteered anyway.
although i think he lived i wouldnt be dissapointed if that was his death. it was a heroic death and i think the character deserved nothing less... im also very happy that he wasnt killed in a cockpit! Blair is the best flyer there ever was and there is NO WAY someone could nail him in a cockpit.... he had to die outside of one. its just like how he was captured eariler in the game.... he had to be out of a cockpit, there's no way someome could have disabled/touched his fighter
i would have really liked to see a funeral scene for Blair if the writer's had intended that last cutscene to be his death. i think THAT would have been a very emotional experience for any WC fan in which some lovely words could have been said about the great hero of the confederation.
i also would rather Blair die heroically as he did than simply grow old and never be heard of again.... its just not right.... Blair couldnt keep away from Confed and it would be cruel to let his character retire and disappear. i was uncomfortable with him being in the navy as a retired flyer in WCP but who here did not expect him to jump back in the cockpit for one last mission? he couldnt stay away.... it is all he knows how to do!
if WCPSO is the last wing commander game to ever be made then i will assume Blair did die because it gives good closure to his character. but until i know for sure it will be the last game (you never know!) i will assume that he is still out there somewhere
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Principally, I am not against the fact that Blair's death was not too heroic (I mean he had done the job and he had - apparently - the opportunity to get away), I think it gives him a much deeper character. I would even have been OK if Blair comitted sacrifice for all the reasons mentioned here. I too am glad he didn't die in the cockpit.
Of course, that's only when including all the points brought up here - when I first saw the cutscene I thought that it was a very horrible and stupid way to end Blair (if it was his end).
Of course, that's only when including all the points brought up here - when I first saw the cutscene I thought that it was a very horrible and stupid way to end Blair (if it was his end).
Like I said, that's a perfectly plausible ending. And the dredged up memories and points you present definitely support that. Although, I don't recall from WC4 - WCP that Blair was ever THAT torn up about Kilrah other than the line you mentioned (again, maybe the books convey this feeling).
What about:
Blair disables the shield tower. He turns towards his shuttle. The hatch closes, cutting him off from his only escape - now he must find another way to his ship. There's a young man on the ground, a dead marine. He picks up the marine's weapon - his original owner won't need it anymore and whatever killed him might still be lurking around somewhere. Blair begins to cautiously work his way toward the other opening. Running blindly will only draw attention to him and make him an easy target. And he won't call for help from Dekkar because that would endanger other's lives just to save his. No, he will escape on his own. Blair stops. What was that sound? Something was in the chamber with him! But where…?
Now I've only seen the ending three or four times (
ONLY 3 or 4) but that was my first impression.I think that as deaths in war go, Blair's was good in the sense that something tangibly good was achieved as a direct result of his actions. At least he didn't perish in a minor skirmish, notable only because he was in it.
However in reference to the quote above, why do most people seem dead set against Blair dying from a non-violent cause? What's wrong with him retiring? God knows he's earned it. What the hell is so wrong with him getting one last chance to find some real pleasure before he dies. Why all the emphasis on a glorious, if violent, death?
I'm thinkin...
Spaceman
I don't specifically enjoy the fact that Blair died but if he had to go at least he accopmlisheed his mission in bringing down that last shield tower.
As to retiring, he tried that twice. Well at least once for sure, that was when he tried to be a farmer between WC3 & WC4. The second time around he never really "retired", he just took things easy doing R&D for Confed. The Midway class mega class of carrirers was mostly his idea. As I recall from the WCP manual, once the Midway was done with her shake down cruise, Blair was going to retire outright, possibly coming around every now and then to lecture at the Confed Navel Acadamy.
I think it would have been nice to see Blair retire and make a home for himself. The only home he ever really had was on board a carrier.
As to retiring, he tried that twice. Well at least once for sure, that was when he tried to be a farmer between WC3 & WC4. The second time around he never really "retired", he just took things easy doing R&D for Confed. The Midway class mega class of carrirers was mostly his idea. As I recall from the WCP manual, once the Midway was done with her shake down cruise, Blair was going to retire outright, possibly coming around every now and then to lecture at the Confed Navel Acadamy.
I think it would have been nice to see Blair retire and make a home for himself. The only home he ever really had was on board a carrier.
.Originally posted by Ghost
Bah!
That is Marketing, What can we do to sell more books?
Kill the protagonists!. so everyone will buy the book to read the death of our furry friend(non spoiler)
I dont think so, pretty much all main stream starwars books have been best sellars, so they really didnt need to kill him or the others (if you have read Star By Star and Dark Journies then you know what I mean) to sell books, though it may have helped a tad, but what it did was give them something to write about and allow the sense of desparation and uncertainty to exist, which makes us want to read on to find out what the characters will do, like han's way of dealing with the death of the furball, or jaina's dealing with the deaths of X and X. (though X may not be dead, we do not know yet, i maintain hope.
So yes the current arc of the Vong invasion is most certainly done to sell books but the main character deaths are being done because they are essential to the story and make the story more interesting, because rather than just know that all the people in almost definitly fatal situations will live and succeed, we now ask, who will live and who will die, so it adds suspense to the situation.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
He tried going home and ended up an alcoholic.
First, I would like to say that we can not be sure of the REAL evolution of the WC story without asking to those who wrote it. Did they want Blair to die ?? I mean, as the story is still unachieved, all we have to do is to extrapolate, but nobody is right or wrong. The only mean to close this endless debate would be to ask the storywriters...
Personally, I think as Loaf does. Blair's death in WCP suites me very well. And here is why (but Loaf already explained most of these arguments).
The first time I saw the final cut scene I could not believe it ! "What ??? Blair is dead ??? Impossible !!!!". As most of you do, I clearly preferred Blair to Casey. But in my way of thinking Blair's death is quite logical.
I always liked the fact that some important characters of WC died. I mean, I surely did not enjoy watching Spirit or Angel dying, but it is inevitable. It makes the story of WC more realistic : in wars, lot of people die. In this mass, some of the heroes have to die. Furthermore, it makes the story far more interesting. When you know that 1 or 2 characters of the previous opus died, you can not be sure anymore of how the character you're watching will finish the current story.
Now the Blair case. If I consider that Blair really dies at the end of Prophecy, I am quite satisfied with the evolution of the character during the whole story.
In the first episode, Blair is still a green and is not sure of his talent. As he is incredibly skillful and an good soldier, he gains respect from his pairs and become more and more self confident.
Then there was the destruction of the Tiger's Claw and the first big disillusion in his life. He lost many of his closest friends, and most of people tought he was responsible. And there is nothing he can do against this for 10 long years. You can clearly feel the difference in Blair's mind if you compare WC1 and WC2. These events have changed him. Only the love he has for Angel makes him more "optimistic".
But he lost this love too. This, plus the Battle of Terra, achieved to make him "darker" (I don't know if I used the right word here). Clearly, he is not the same Blair of WC1 anymore. He still believe in is job, but he knows, he feels that some events are above him. That maybe there is nothing he can do to change the course of history, of human destiny. But he does all that he can do save his fellows. Finally, the only way to save us all was for him to completely destroy a civilization, killing millions of sentient aliens. It is a lot for a single man.
Then there is WC4. Where Blair realized that Tolwyn became insane. I mean : I don't think there was a lot of "friendship" between them, but there was a mutual respect. Tolwyn certainly was someone respected by Blair. And finally, he was willing to kill billion of people, showing the darkest side of mankind. At this point, maybe Blair lost confidence in humanity itself !
Finally WCP. Blair seems to have no attachments, and no other friends than pilots. The Navy is his only family. With the end of the Kilrathi War, most of the older pilots lost their marks. And then there comes a new generation, with Casey, another incredibly skillful pilot. With the same doubts as Blair in the beginning... Clearly, we can feel that Blair fells nostalgia of the good old time when he observes Casey. And I think he realizes that has not his place in the Navy anymore. Not like during the good old time, at least. The world has changed, and he is "obsolete". He is not needed anymore. Nevertheless, he still managed to save Confederation's butt, but he lost ALL the illusions he had when he was young. He also lost most of what he was believing in.
And what about the Nephillim ? Could Tolwyn have been right in his forecast ? After the Kilrathi, the Nephilim. And then ? What when the Nephilim will be repelled ? Maybe the Mantu ?? Or something else ! Is it an endless strugle ? And maybe he thinks (with the WC4 events) that if there is no more enemies, the next threat could be from mankind itself ! But nevertheless, it is not his struggle anymore, there is a new generation for that. We can clearly feel (or at least I feel), that Blair is a tired hero at the end of Prophecy.
So is he dead ? Well, maybe. Maybe he let him died. But nobody can be sure…
I know it is not the answer you all wanted. But this was my vision of Blair's career and life. And in this scheme, his death is satisfying for me. It is logical. More than that, it makes the character very romantic. Like in the 19th books...
And honestly, if he survives, will he retires in a farm again, and dies many years later from a heart attack ? Well, I am sure Blair's would prefer this end, for me, this is not how a heroe must finish. It is too common...
Personally, I think as Loaf does. Blair's death in WCP suites me very well. And here is why (but Loaf already explained most of these arguments).
The first time I saw the final cut scene I could not believe it ! "What ??? Blair is dead ??? Impossible !!!!". As most of you do, I clearly preferred Blair to Casey. But in my way of thinking Blair's death is quite logical.
I always liked the fact that some important characters of WC died. I mean, I surely did not enjoy watching Spirit or Angel dying, but it is inevitable. It makes the story of WC more realistic : in wars, lot of people die. In this mass, some of the heroes have to die. Furthermore, it makes the story far more interesting. When you know that 1 or 2 characters of the previous opus died, you can not be sure anymore of how the character you're watching will finish the current story.
Now the Blair case. If I consider that Blair really dies at the end of Prophecy, I am quite satisfied with the evolution of the character during the whole story.
In the first episode, Blair is still a green and is not sure of his talent. As he is incredibly skillful and an good soldier, he gains respect from his pairs and become more and more self confident.
Then there was the destruction of the Tiger's Claw and the first big disillusion in his life. He lost many of his closest friends, and most of people tought he was responsible. And there is nothing he can do against this for 10 long years. You can clearly feel the difference in Blair's mind if you compare WC1 and WC2. These events have changed him. Only the love he has for Angel makes him more "optimistic".
But he lost this love too. This, plus the Battle of Terra, achieved to make him "darker" (I don't know if I used the right word here). Clearly, he is not the same Blair of WC1 anymore. He still believe in is job, but he knows, he feels that some events are above him. That maybe there is nothing he can do to change the course of history, of human destiny. But he does all that he can do save his fellows. Finally, the only way to save us all was for him to completely destroy a civilization, killing millions of sentient aliens. It is a lot for a single man.
Then there is WC4. Where Blair realized that Tolwyn became insane. I mean : I don't think there was a lot of "friendship" between them, but there was a mutual respect. Tolwyn certainly was someone respected by Blair. And finally, he was willing to kill billion of people, showing the darkest side of mankind. At this point, maybe Blair lost confidence in humanity itself !
Finally WCP. Blair seems to have no attachments, and no other friends than pilots. The Navy is his only family. With the end of the Kilrathi War, most of the older pilots lost their marks. And then there comes a new generation, with Casey, another incredibly skillful pilot. With the same doubts as Blair in the beginning... Clearly, we can feel that Blair fells nostalgia of the good old time when he observes Casey. And I think he realizes that has not his place in the Navy anymore. Not like during the good old time, at least. The world has changed, and he is "obsolete". He is not needed anymore. Nevertheless, he still managed to save Confederation's butt, but he lost ALL the illusions he had when he was young. He also lost most of what he was believing in.
And what about the Nephillim ? Could Tolwyn have been right in his forecast ? After the Kilrathi, the Nephilim. And then ? What when the Nephilim will be repelled ? Maybe the Mantu ?? Or something else ! Is it an endless strugle ? And maybe he thinks (with the WC4 events) that if there is no more enemies, the next threat could be from mankind itself ! But nevertheless, it is not his struggle anymore, there is a new generation for that. We can clearly feel (or at least I feel), that Blair is a tired hero at the end of Prophecy.
So is he dead ? Well, maybe. Maybe he let him died. But nobody can be sure…
I know it is not the answer you all wanted. But this was my vision of Blair's career and life. And in this scheme, his death is satisfying for me. It is logical. More than that, it makes the character very romantic. Like in the 19th books...
And honestly, if he survives, will he retires in a farm again, and dies many years later from a heart attack ? Well, I am sure Blair's would prefer this end, for me, this is not how a heroe must finish. It is too common...
Just out of curiousity, what was your initial interpretation of the end? Did you believe that, yes, Blair never intended to return from the mission? That he meant to die on the alien spacecraft? I've seen some argue that because he didn't jump right into his craft, he didn't want to leave. I guess what I'm driving at is if the events portrayed in the cutscenes logically led you to the conclusion or did the no-planned-return theory come first and looking back (emotional trauma, etc) you saw the prior events as justification for this ending?
Actually, Shatner revived Kirk in a novel he wrote that takes place immediately after his death in the movie. IIRC the Romulans stole his body, brought him back from the dead in a younger incarnation (no ego in play there
), and tried to use him for their own ends.
Ghost
Emperor
Originally posted by Marcml30
Actually, Shatner revived Kirk in a novel he wrote that takes place immediately after his death in the movie. IIRC the Romulans stole his body, brought him back from the dead in a younger incarnation (no ego in play there
Hmm...Something like the new Star Trek X movie..
Originally posted by Marcml30
Actually, Shatner revived Kirk in a novel he wrote that takes place immediately after his death in the movie. IIRC the Romulans stole his body, brought him back from the dead in a younger incarnation (no ego in play there
yes i read the book, but since ST books are not canon it does not much matter
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
That's silly, "not canon" isn't the same thing as "never happened" or "doesn't exist". It just means the writers of the next episode of Enterprise don't have to have read 397,268 Star Trek novels before getting to work.
When I first saw this cutscene, 3 or 4 years ago, I believed that Blair was dead.It was not the end I was waiting for our hero, but it was what I saw.
Even if I had played all the previous WC (except the 4th) I did not try to relieve some details that could proove that Blair was dead... or was not. I was not very happy, but I accepted this end. Maybe I hoped that Blair could return in the sequel, but of course there never was a sequel.
Then, the game finished, I put away the cds in the box, for a long time...
One year ago, I discovered the CIC. As I always considered the WCs the best games I ever played, it gave me the desire to play them again. So (with some difficulties...) I played WC4, WC1, SM1&2, and WC2. I even read some of the novels. Now that I have a better vision of the whole story, I think that Blair's death is possible, giving the evolution of the character, as I explained it in my previous post. And in fact this is the end that suites the most to me.
But I did not watch the final cutscene since the first time I did... So I can not argue about the details you relieve.
I think the only way to end this discussion up would be to play the next opus. I hope some day we will be able to. And I hope I won't be to old to handle a joystick without trembling...