I must know....

I

Iceman2225

Spaceman
I read the rules and i know this issue probably HAS been debated to death. But i must know...


WHY DIDNT BLAIR RUN FOR HIS SHIP IN THE END OF WC5. If it was me i would of haled my butt out of there if i knew it was going to blow up. But if you watched the video to the end you would see that not all those cooling towers exploded. I only hope that in a future sequal Blair comes back with a story of how he killed that bug and got out while the tower was drifting in space. If his transport was connected to that tower, it might not have been destroyed!!

AHH!
 
Are you trying to make me cry? :(

There hasn't been a thread about this in a long time, so I won't close it right now, we'll see what happens... but stop doing things that you know are contrary to common sense...

TC
 
In great Sci-fi like Star Trek, nobody ever truly dies. Why should it be any different for WC?

I for one am extremely pissed about that ending, even more so by it's unresolved cliff hanger nature. Blair needs to survive, even if we only find about it as hearsay in a sequel (assuming that there ever is a sequel)

Kind of reminds me of the fact that greatness is behind us. (Bach, Einstein, Wing Commander.....)

My question is, what is it with the writers? Why do they constantly do this to us? Are they sadists? Do they have something to prove? Think about it, the Claw, Shotglass, Halcyon, Bossman, Hunter, Iceman, Hunter, Shadow, Spirit, Angel (which were the worst 3 being women. There is no call fot that crap at all.), the list goes on, but I can't remember them all right now. Probably one of those defensive self imposed mental blocks.
:( :mad:
 
Originally posted by Iceman2225
I read the rules and i know this issue probably HAS been debated to death.
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I haven't seen many WC-related topics here that haven't already been debated into the ground. Here's to a fresh perspective.
 
Originally posted by DetailedTarget
In great Sci-fi like Star Trek, nobody ever truly dies. Why should it be any different for WC?

I for one am extremely pissed about that ending, even more so by it's unresolved cliff hanger nature. Blair needs to survive, even if we only find about it as hearsay in a sequel (assuming that there ever is a sequel)

Kind of reminds me of the fact that greatness is behind us. (Bach, Einstein, Wing Commander.....)

My question is, what is it with the writers? Why do they constantly do this to us? Are they sadists? Do they have something to prove? Think about it, the Claw, Shotglass, Halcyon, Bossman, Hunter, Iceman, Hunter, Shadow, Spirit, Angel (which were the worst 3 being women. There is no call fot that crap at all.), the list goes on, but I can't remember them all right now. Probably one of those defensive self imposed mental blocks.
:( :mad:
Click to expand...

here is the reason they want to give you a reason to dispise the enemy, and more importantly, show that this is a freaking WAR in war people die, that is why it is good and that is why Star Trek has lost its appeal to me (well DS9 TOS and TNG are still great but this newer crap is well crap but that is off topic), I want semi-realism, i want people to die so that i feel something. Just like in the SW:NJO books with all the people dying right left and center, minor background but still cool characters and 2-3 major mainstream primary characters dropping in combat with an enemy that is made out to be TOUGH.

The reason as i said why characters are killed off is either because:
1. To add realism and a sense of it actually being a war.
2. so that you FEEL something, that is why so many main characters are killed, to provoke an emotional response.
3. The people making the games/show got damned sick of the characters and wanted to get rid of them
 
Iceman2225: One of the themes of WCP was that the older characters were passing the torch to younger generation. That's why you play Casey, the pleb, and Blair stays in the shadows most of the time. Providing an ending that strongly implies Blair died valiantly, was a good way of giving the old one last triumph and the new to pick up the where the old left off.

DetailedTarget: One of the great things about WC IMHO is that it allows characters to develop. Part of that development, consists of killing characters, to wrap up their story and make way for new ones. Imagine playing all the WCs, and your wingmen stay constant - only getting to fly with the WC1 crew and never meeting Hobbes, Hawk, Vagabond, Dallas and the rest. As mentioned before, killing the characters gives the war a personal feel - you actually care about what's happening. Since you quite obviously do care, that means the writers have achieved their objective - they've immersed you in the story, which makes WC all the better.

Contrast this with Dragonball Z, where Goku's friends from Dragonball, gradually get sidelined and become baggage. Nothing happens to them, but they're still there. They just do nothing. At least WC gives its characters a dignified send off.
 
Napolean and Penguin bring up good points. If the old characters weren't removed in some way it would be relatively boring seeing the same old faces time and again. Hell, if Iceman wasn't killed, his kid could very well be flying as his wingman(unless he retired, provided he was around long enough to retire, which he wasn't).

Although it does upset me somewhat that the game designers decided to kill the greatest WC character that ever lived, i.e. Blair. It would have been nice seeing Blair reach old age and retiring like Paladin did, although mabye not becoming a senator like Paladin. Blair doesn't seem to be senator material.

Why not get rid of Maniac. Oh wait, Maniac can't be eliminated, he's needed for comic relief. :D
 
Originally posted by I'm thinkin...
Oh wait, Maniac can't be eliminated, he's needed for comic relief. :D
Click to expand...

But that's what Maestro's for now... Maniac's just around to mope and whine about *promotions* and *responsibility*
 
Blairs death had to happen, for reasons already mentioned but I'll pu tit together.

#1 to pass the torch - would you really feel that connected to casey if you had Blair in the background?

#2 realism - as stated before people die in war, if they didn't die you woulnd't feel as emotionally attached (cudos to whoever brought up that point, it's really sad how it takes the threat of death for human beings to treasure something )

#3 This is the Heart of the Tiger people!! Can you honestly see Blair wasting away in old age, haunted by all those friends he's lost over the years? My only gripe is that he didn't die in the cockpit. Blair was a pilot, through and through. There is no way he should have died anywhere else.

(#3 also brings up another point in that maybe he should have died somewhere other than the cockpit. If he died in combat with someone, that would mean he was better than blair - and I just couldn't live knowing someone was out there who was better than blair!! :) )
 
hmm, i think the last scene was badly made.... ok, you KNOW the place around you is going to blow, you tell your Advanced PDA to give you a running countdown and you... walk cautiously to your ship just meters away, Dumbass, NOW A REAL person would'nt even bother calling Dekker and would run straight for his ship, what would you do?
 
Originally posted by Napoleon


I want semi-realism, i want people to die so that i feel something. Just like in the SW:NJO books with all the people dying right left and center.
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Bah!
That is Marketing, What can we do to sell more books?
Kill the protagonists!. so everyone will buy the book to read the death of our furry friend :( (non spoiler)
 
Blair had to die to clear his conscious -- to forgive his sins. Despite his modest demeanor, he was the only character who never truly came to an understanding of his actions during the war. He was the archetypical hero, but he'd done things so horrific that he could not bear to think about them. In the ensuing decade, he'd covered them up, first with alcohol and then with service... but the Nephilim warlord who tortured him brought it all back to him. Faced with the choice of spending the rest of his life a battered, tortured soul he begged the CAG to let him fight again, intending to die. Deep down he probably knew he should have died at Kilrah -- no man should live with the blood of thirty billion on his hands... and so, given the opportunity to 'do it again', he did his job and allowed himself to rest.

(Minor note to somebody in the bottom: It's been implied that Shotglass is still around...)
 
Originally posted by dacis2
hmm, i think the last scene was badly made.... ok, you KNOW the place around you is going to blow, you tell your Advanced PDA to give you a running countdown and you... walk cautiously to your ship just meters away, Dumbass, NOW A REAL person would'nt even bother calling Dekker and would run straight for his ship, what would you do?
Click to expand...

There's a chance that the bug could move faster than Blair and have got 'im in the back as he was running for his fighter.

as for Blair's death, i think it would have been better for him to have encountered heavy resistance (got shot a few times or something), but lowered the shield as a "last act" before dying from his injuries (that would have been a more dramatic end in my opinion)
 
Originally posted by Ghost

Bah!
That is Marketing, What can we do to sell more books?
Kill the protagonists!. so everyone will buy the book to read the death of our furry friend :( (non spoiler)
Click to expand...

I love your way of thinking, Ghost !
This is only a matter of big bucks !

John
 
Not Maniac!

Originally posted by I'm thinkin...
Why not get rid of Maniac. Oh wait, Maniac can't be eliminated, he's needed for comic relief. :D
Click to expand...

Maniac will never die! Okay!? Never!!

Maniac dying is like cruelty! I posted it before but seeing his comm vid when he dies in Wing Commander III was frightening! Him screaming that it's impossible, his luck running out... the whole comm was just chilling (and sobering for Maniac fans who coast off his air of confidence). To see such a [over] confident, proud hot shot suddenly become gripped by death....

Seriously, though, Maniac's reaching that point in his career where he'll get promoted to Lt Col to avoid high year of tenure, get a desk job and retire. I mean, as much as the guy wants to, there is no way he can fly military craft forever.

Look at Paladin! He said something about "convincing the doctors that I'm still 20 is getting difficult; I won't be flying much longer."

... something like that.... :confused:
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Blair had to die to clear his conscious -- to forgive his sins. Despite his modest demeanor, he was the only character who never truly came to an understanding of his actions during the war. He was the archetypical hero, but he'd done things so horrific that he could not bear to think about them. In the ensuing decade, he'd covered them up, first with alcohol and then with service... but the Nephilim warlord who tortured him brought it all back to him. Faced with the choice of spending the rest of his life a battered, tortured soul he begged the CAG to let him fight again, intending to die. Deep down he probably knew he should have died at Kilrah -- no man should live with the blood of thirty billion on his hands... and so, given the opportunity to 'do it again', he did his job and allowed himself to rest.
Click to expand...
How did you come to this conclusion? Did the books foreshadow this end? Having not read them, I can only go by the cutscenes in the games (WC3-WCP) and I did not get the impression that Blair was ready to commit suicide. Personally, I would have preferred to see Blair heroically sacrifice himself (saving others) than suicide.
 
Originally posted by Marcml30

How did you come to this conclusion? Did the books foreshadow this end? Having not read them, I can only go by the cutscenes in the games (WC3-WCP) and I did not get the impression that Blair was ready to commit suicide. Personally, I would have preferred to see Blair heroically sacrifice himself (saving others) than suicide.
Click to expand...

The novels don't foreshadow any such actions on Blair's part (he has dreams while on the Lexington in the fourth novel, but they're focused on the absurdity of the current situation, not on the destruction of Kilrah). And any suicidal notions on Blair's part are almost certainly subconscious.

The cutscenes do talk about Blair's unhappiness that the youngsters on board the Midway are about to lose their innocence. You see it when he's arguing with the CAG right before the first briefing, and then later on when he loses an argument with the CAG over whether or not he should be flying ("I'm too old for this,... and you're too young." He says something to that effect to Casey, who's been eavesdropping from around the corner.).
Ironically, however, while Blair's past is haunting him throughout the game, Blair is now what haunts the new hero of the Confederation. Although it didn't come up at all in SOP, it is almost certain that Casey's constant 'screwups' (how he'll see them, not how others will see them) that got Blair kidnapped and/or killed are going to bug him for a long time.

The game gives you four different types of 'heroes'. Maniac is the perpetual innocent. He's never really aware of the seriousness of his actions, although his brief stint in command cracks through his shell for a bit. Hawk is flying purely for revenge and he, as Spider reveals, emotionally died a long time before. Blair is the one everyone looks up to, but he (somewhat like Ender, in Ender's Game) is haunted by the actions he had to take in order to win the war and save his species. Finally, Casey is the young rookie who's just starting to get his feet wet. He looks up to the others and respects them for their accomplishments, but hasn't had a chance yet to see firsthand the horrors of war.
 
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