I do believe we are overdue....

I'm pretty sure you started the argument here. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't post here.

I'm pretty sure Howard would be (and has been) the first person to tell you not to get too excited at this point -- it's just silly.
Wow. A dude goes to sleep for the evening and wakes up to complete chaos. Nice. To clear things up - Yes, all you've really seen from us are pieces of game art. I've done everything in my power to make all who look at them aware that that's exactly all they are. Precisely none of the stuff I've shown is actually running in the games right now, and no one is more painfully aware of that than I. Here are the facts of the matter: Yes, months ago we were talking about having a demo released. Wy did that not happen? Well, the honest and truthful answer is that we simply weren't far enough along on the engine side to do everything that we wanted. One of the primary problems is that there had been a miscommunication between Joel and I about how the shadows should interact with the glowmaps on the ships. If we had released the demo, that error would have been visible to everyone - now I know not everyone would have given two rat shits, but that sort of problem makes me reluctant to release a faulty demo to the public eye. So instead, we decided to hold off and do a more full-featured demo. One that basically contained everything but the walking about bases. Basically Privateer without landing. Since we had mostly all that artwork already finished, it allowed us to go back and polish the stuff we knew we'd need. That's where we're at. Joel is still working on getting a few of the basic systems programmed - he just finished the method by which we set up solar systems, jump lines, planets, and such. Really exciting stuff - for us.
Anyway. This project is going to take a long time. We do not know when it will be showable to the public. And the best we can do is to continue to post updates and what artwork we finish here for review and comments. Things are moving along, but honestly it will take a while.
And I'm looking forward to Arena as much as the next guy - I find it some what amusing that in some point in the future we can all take these relatively silly arguments outside - that is to the Arena - and beat the shit out of each other there. I'm honestly looking forward to that.
To resolve matters on Arena sounds like a good idea.

Anyway, congratulations on the pics, Howard, they look good as usual.
I'm all for seeing these renders -- but it's important to let people like Cam here know what they are, as he seems to be laboring under the misapprehension that there's a giant Wing Commander game right around the corner here.
*Shrugs* We've waited eighteen months since you announced Pioneer. Personally, I can stand to wait another three years or so for the actual full game if it's really going to be as cool as you're promising.
It'd surely be a great joy for me to play almost anything involving the art that has been shown us here. Since my life isn't revolving (solely ;) ) around this project I can wait for some more time...
So, more updates. Radars, as promised. They are, in order:
Sentry S, Sentry SJ, Sentry Aura
Tripwire Bronze, Tripwire Silver, Tripwire Gold
Also, in the same order are the different cockpit displays each uses.
So, any changes or suggestions are still very much welcome - I haven't yet done the final texture bake.


  • radars1.jpg
    22.1 KB · Views: 302
  • radars2.jpg
    23.5 KB · Views: 295
  • radars3.jpg
    20 KB · Views: 254
  • radars4.jpg
    25.3 KB · Views: 290
  • radars.jpg
    109.4 KB · Views: 277
They look great, Howard, but I do have a question about the displays.

Why different displays? In both Priv/RF and the real world, changing the radar doesn't produce a functionally different display (in the real world, the display isn't an integral part of the radar unit, and I'm guessing the same applies in WC). Differentiating between the radar models is fine in theory, but when it's something vital like seeing who's around you, it seems to me that doing so in the display isn't the best of ideas.
Why different displays? In both Priv/RF and the real world, changing the radar doesn't produce a functionally different display (in the real world, the display isn't an integral part of the radar unit, and I'm guessing the same applies in WC).

I can't check at the moment, but I seem to remember that changing the radar in Privateer actually does change the display... or maybe the displays just look different in the various ships?
The only change in "looks" of Privateer radars is, that with better types of these devices you begin to recognize friend/foe (blue and red respectively), and missiles - yellow, I guess. also there was some range improvement for better models, so you saw potential threats on your display much sooner. Other than that there was no other change in radar display design.

These various radar display designs would really give me some satisfaction, for having much more of a 'ship improvement feeling' while sitting in my cockpit. It would be great though, if these various designs weren't only a matter of "cooler look" but also add at least some small new functionalities and/or some new information output.
Death: I believe that the radar displays change based on which radar you have in Privateer. That's where I got the idea in the first place. I just checked, and it does indeed change based on which radar you have installed. Still - I understand your point. Should I perhaps make the changes less noticable than they are now?
These various radar display designs would really give me some satisfaction, for having much more of a 'ship improvement feeling' while sitting in my cockpit.

I agree with this 100%. Just like the buildup of dirt on the "windshield", these visual differences add a layer of personality to your ship, almost making it a dynamic character in the game. I love it!
I don't recall them changing, but it's been years since I've played.

My primary concern is the lack, in most of those displays, of the ring around the edge of the display that was used in Privateer (and other WC games, IIRC) to show what's behind you, as the pie wedges (well, they look that way anyhow :p ) only covered sides and above/below
yup, it'd be reasonable to add a divider ring to the models in the middle and lower row. aside from that, the only thing I'm not happy with is this bunch of bright little triangles in the middle down and right down displays: they don't seem functional in any way, fracture the overall view and steal eye focus. maybe if they weren't brighter than the rest of the display... (a divider ring can get their shade of green: it's functional and besides, it's circular, so it won't steal more focus than its due).
yeah.. they change.. the original radar you have is all black and white... and won't let you lock on a target.
So what all are the functions of these nine radar models? The same as in Privateer, with the cheap brand having no friend/foe, the middle having friend/foe, and the expensive having full color, and the cheap model having no missile lock, the middle having lock, and the best having ITTS?
Yup. Each radar has its up sides and downsides, to include range (not a major factor really), power use, whether or not it can lock up a target for the purposes of singling it out, chance for identification, and then colors. So, the Sentry 8 can't lock a target, has a 10% chance of identifying a ship per second, no ITTS, and no colors. the high end of the spectrum, the Tripwire Gold, can lock a target, has a 30% chance per second of identifying a target, has ITTS, and all the colors for friend/foe, bases, and 'other'. so the other series are various levels of inbetween. the only low end sensor that has any kind of color is the Sentry Aura, and that being for bases. It also has ITTS and can lock up a target. But, anyway. I've probably said to much, heheh.
Here's a question for you Brad... Are we going to do ITTS in Pioneer? I was under the impression that it was a much newer invention... at least ten years after the story in Pioneer takes place. Am I wrong?
That being said, perhaps we could come up with some sort of perk that replaces ITTS?
Regarding ITTS: I agree that it doesn't really make sense to be using it in the Landreich area 10 years or more before seeing front line service by the Confederation, and then only by "advanced" fighters as the WC2 manual describes them.

Perhaps some advanced scanning options could replace ITTS on the more advanced models. Some examples off the top of my head: cargo, life forms, gun/missile types, power level, radiation level, thermal signature, etc.

Also, there could be "blind spots" on the cheaper types where the scanning read isn't as clean at the rear of the ship, for example. Naturally, the more advanced radars would have better all-around visibility. Cheaper sets could also be more susceptible to jamming, if you plan on implementing any sort of ECM in the game.
Like torpedoes, particle cannons and cloaking devices, ITTSes were supposed to be new in Wing Commander 2...

... and like all those other technologies, they've since appeared earlier in the timeline. Super Wing Commander, for instance, has ITTSes in 2654-5.