Enterprise Season 4 - This Will Be GOOD!

PeteyG

I can have an avatar now
I would have to disagree with you on that point. It is easy to criticize the decision to stick with the TNG+ scale, however, what would you have done? Nobody is familiar with the TOS warp scale at all (tell me the cruising or top speed of a Constitution class starship without looking it up), but everyone knows the TNG+ scale ("ooh, Warp 9 is fast! Warp 9.6!? They'll explode soon!"). The only people to really be upset about them not sticking to a poorly thought out warp speed scale from 30+ years ago would already have been been turned off by having a 'first' starship Enterprise with a Vulcan first officer.

So the pro:con ratio, from the standpoint of writing a television series that people are actually going to watch, for using a TNG+ warp scale over a TOS scale would be VERY high. Or something like that.
 

Maniac II

Rear Admiral
PeteyG said:
(tell me the cruising or top speed of a Constitution class starship without looking it up), but everyone knows the TNG+ scale ("ooh, Warp 9 is fast! Warp 9.6!? They'll explode soon!").
So... does that mean you can tell me the crusing speed of a Galaxy class?
 

PeteyG

I can have an avatar now
Dude! That's easy. It's like warp 6 is like standard cruising speed. Warp 9.2 or something is the top sustainable speed (as of 3rd season TNG or so). The numbers creep up towards the end of TNG and into DS9, so who knows what they are exactly?

But everyone knows that the Enterprise-D goes between Warp 5 and 8 most of the time, and only goes to 9+ for emergencies (like getting Lwaxanna Troi back to Betazed). Warp factors were rarely mentioned at all during TOS, usually just 'warp speed!'.
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Actually in the German version of TOS they always talk about SOL IIRC, not WARP.
I seem to recall that SOL was simply multitudes of light speed while warp was 2 by the power of WARP-1 in regards of light speed. But then I could be totally misremembering that one.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
In all fairness, the "revamped warp scape" is a post facto fix that originated in supplementary material to explain why the TOS Enterprise would occasionally go to Warp 14. :) It's not the inherent buiding block of the TNG+ continuity that fandom would have us believe...
 

PeteyG

I can have an avatar now
Here's an exhaustive discussion of warp factors, scales, using both canon and backstage info.
http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/FAQs/warp_velocities-faq.htm

LOAF is right when he says that the revamped TNG+ scale originated in supplemental material like the TNG tech manual, but is wrong in saying that it's not a building block of TNG+ continuity. The TNG tech manual was used as a resource for the writers, like a 'technical bible'. The concept of TNG+'s "warp 10=unattainable"-type scale, and idea that it is very different from any scale used in TOS, presented in the tech manual guided continuity throughout the TNG+ years, the theories it presented popping up in various places (like Voyager's Threshold).

Well maybe he's right. It's not a building block... it's a pillar! : )

Worf: I remember reading some analysises of ENT dialogue a year or two ago which led to the ultimate conclusion that the show uses the TNG scale, as opposed to the TOS scale (which is pretty much only defined in back-backstage info).
 
Benjamin, I just now noticed that your statement "I'd've thought it would be clear enough for anyone to understand, but obviously not" was aimed specifically at me. Please accept this humble rebuttal.

I'd like to take this time to point out that Voyager did reach warp ten, as was confirmed by another poster several replies before you decided to wave your ego around and say "I'm right and you are wrong."

thank you, have a nice day, goodbye.
 

Maniac II

Rear Admiral
Damn... i hate when this happens, when two people start going on a verbal slug out...that has caused the closing of some of my favorite threads :(
 

PeteyG

I can have an avatar now
Yeah, take it easy there guys. It's probably not worth getting all annoyed and insulted over Voyager, of all things. : )
 

Benjamin

Rear Admiral
I wasn’t trying to start an argument, he simply misinterpreted my reply. Its funny really, I attacked the clarity of one statement by writing another that was itself unclear. Oh, the irony...
 
In the TNG they actually revamped the warp scale one more time, in All Good Things... The "future" enterprise was capable of warp 13 or 14 (been a while since I have seen that ep.). It is just the technological improvements of warp speed requires redoing of the speed as you get closer to warp 10 (figuratively) they needed a more accurate measuring of speed than Warp 9.9999953343432232 (or whatever).

I have never seen "Reletivity" (or whatever that particular voyager episode was). I think it was proabable meant to make waves in the Star Trek community, kidnda shake up the mix so to speak. When all it really did was make Trekkies angry lol.

I never did watch Enterprise that much, though I did try to watch the last part of this season, and the darker aspect of the show does make it more conducive to modern viewers (the world of wagon train to the stars is over...unfortunately). Though I do miss the undertones that TOS, TNG, DS9 and to a lesser extent Voyager had. They had a political, racial, or cultural undertone where they dealt with real life issues, like War, Racism, Drug Use, Homosexuality and various other issues that are part of our modern culture (TNG and the TOS were rife with it).

I actually prefer to watch Andromeda, though I don't like Kevin Sorbo's easy going captaincy (no authority), the stories seem to be much grander and mysterious. Though if I had a choice I would watch Farscape, or the TOS, DS9, and TNG.
 

PeteyG

I can have an avatar now
BlackJack2064 said:
In the TNG they actually revamped the warp scale one more time, in All Good Things... The "future" enterprise was capable of warp 13 or 14 (been a while since I have seen that ep.). It is just the technological improvements of warp speed requires redoing of the speed as you get closer to warp 10 (figuratively) they needed a more accurate measuring of speed than Warp 9.9999953343432232 (or whatever).
That's what I tend to assume myself. The writers clearly chose to pick higher numbers to display that they were indeed in the future, but it's easily explained away by the cumbersome nature of saying "warp nine piont nine nine nine seven" in tense situations.

But that was of course a 'possible' future... or something.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
As far as the ST canon (such as it is) is concerned, the transwarp drive was scrapped after difficulties on the test platform (which only Kirk, Scotty, and the viewers know was due to deliberate sabotage, not actual technical issues). The Excelsior was refitted with a conventional warp drive, some time between ST3 and ST4.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
I'm sure research began anew with the Borgs use of 'transwarp conduits' in TNG and Voyager, its just not documented anywhere I'm aware of.

C-ya
 
Yeah, my reply was unintentially ambiguous- I assumed since you were quoting me saying "warp ten this" and then said "warp ten that, you were referring to me.

Apologies to all, benjamin most of all. It'd take a lot more than that to get me upset over something as trivial as well...anything, really.
 
I read somewhere that Starfleet played around with Transwarp for far longer than the Excelsior, they just couldn't get it to work.

They are probably working on the Transwarp conduits and such, even though they knew about them from TNG, "Descent" in particalur. I think the technology is just beyond Starfleet, they can get it to work, just not fully understand it yet. And understanding is something that Starfleet is pretty thorough with.

It was an alternate future, but not beyond the realm of belief since they did it from TOS and TNG. THe only difference in Warp Speed from the TNG era, is the warp speed limit or warp 6, which was considered by many (including many from within the production of the shows) was a bad idea. THey might feel the same about the Voyager ep where they break the warp 10 barrier. It was just was easier swept under the carpet so to speak, with Voyager being so far from home.
 
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