Dragon? Wha...?
- Thread starter LividLiquid
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LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
They made more than forty. There were more than that in Wing4.
And I definitely agree with Ice. And while the Vampire does have the better maneuverabillity and guns than the Pirahna, my weiner doesn't feel quite as big when I take out a nav point full of mantas.
And I definitely agree with Ice. And while the Vampire does have the better maneuverabillity and guns than the Pirahna, my weiner doesn't feel quite as big when I take out a nav point full of mantas.
Uh, no, there were only 40 made, and I doubt we see anywhere near that number in WC4...
And personally, while the Dragon/Lance is still the second best ship in the universe (behind the Vampire), I don't like to fly it too often, for the same reason that some guys already mentioned, it's too powerfull and made the game too easy (just like the Excal did in WC3).
Knight
Spaceman
I'd like to disagree with that. Maneuverability is one of hte last things I look at. Which is probably why I don't mind and even sometimes like to fly the Devastator. Guns are only useless if you don't know how to use them. I can get just as many kills with a Plasma gun and a slowass Dev than I can in a Black Vampire w/all it's speed and manuverability. It's jsut a matter of lead and control of your guns. Maybe I'm just a good shot, so it seems easy to me, who knows?
LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
More than forty if you include cutscenes, and mentions of shipyards and whatnot.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
The problem with that "more than forty" thing is that you could be seeing the same Dragons multiple times. However, a very quick calculation on my part tallies about 38-40 Dragons that you can destroy through the course of the game.. plus there's several that you steal. So the total is about forty.. which goes to show that most Dragons were destroyed in the conflict.
Hm, I count around 34, although that's with all the missions and you obviously won't be playing through all of them with all the choices that WC4 offers, and not all of them can be destroyed. For example, once you jump to Axius you'll encounter around 6 Dragons before you reach the base but you can't destroy any of them, so the Dragons we see later when you try to escape Axius could be the same ones, and that can happen on other ocasions like Crid mentioned.
The problem with the cutscenes is that other than Seether, I don't belive there are any other Dragons destroyed during cutscenes, therfore all of them can be the ones we see later in the game.
The problem with the cutscenes is that other than Seether, I don't belive there are any other Dragons destroyed during cutscenes, therfore all of them can be the ones we see later in the game.
LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
You guys are all taking this the wrong way. All I'm saying is that there were WAAAAY more than forty black lance forces members, so there were probably more than forty fighters. I'm not counting on my fingers, or anything, I'm just making an educated guess. It seems very unlikely to me that the black lance have starbases, carriers, and their own starsystem, and only made forty fighters.
OK, on further review, the number is still at around 34/36, and around 13/15 more can appear during certain circumstances (some of which are loosing situations). That number includes all of the missions in the game, at least eight of the 34 Dragons can't be destroyed, and eight of the 13/15, will appear when you try to escape Axius, if you take your time and don't auto away from Axius within five seconds.
Dragon are very expensive fighters and also the Black Lance did not have the time to build more dragons fighters.
Besides the black lance also used Pirate, Confed and BW Fighters as well (perhaps even kilrathi fighters).
The black lance main purpose in WC IV was to seed discord among ConFed and BW, not to take whole Systems a large contigent of Dragons were not needed for that purpose.
Besides the black lance also used Pirate, Confed and BW Fighters as well (perhaps even kilrathi fighters).
The black lance main purpose in WC IV was to seed discord among ConFed and BW, not to take whole Systems a large contigent of Dragons were not needed for that purpose.
Liquid: No one's taking this the wrong way, you just didn't ask the right question....
Obviously they had more fighters than just the 40 Dragons, most if not all, of those other fighters were Black Hellcats.
Also, the BL had only ONE starbase, 0 carriers, and 0 starsystems.
[Edited by Earthworm on 02-04-2001 at 17:05]
Obviously they had more fighters than just the 40 Dragons, most if not all, of those other fighters were Black Hellcats. Also, the BL had only ONE starbase, 0 carriers, and 0 starsystems.
[Edited by Earthworm on 02-04-2001 at 17:05]
Dragonmage
Spaceman
Yeah, I'd like to see you fly a Dev through some of those Gauntlet-style sim missions... You may get some kills, but you ain't coming out without your hull integrity in at least the yellow. And if you get more kills ina Dev than a Vamp you are either full of crap or you're one of those pilots who goes in slamming the stick around without an ounce of finesse. But my main point is no lone Dev is gonna survive an encounter with multiple enemies that are faster and more maneuverable. When you have wingmen as distractions? Sure, but not alone. So Knight, go set your game on Ace(a respectable difficulty level without being insane and going to nightmare) then fly a Dev into the sim mission when you're going up against twenty something Dralthis per nav point plus a corvette and we'll see how much you don't look at maneuverability.
LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
1 System. Axius. 1 Starbase. Axius. 1 Carrier. The Vesuvius. It is officially a confed fighter, but is seen outside of the Axius starbase, and Seether flies off of it... IN A DRAGON, so I would consider it a black lance carrier disguised from, by, and as, a confed carrier.
And you shouldn't listen to the books. According to the books, the border worlds flew Ferrets and such, so I wouldn't trust creative license over fictitious universal logic.
And you shouldn't listen to the books. According to the books, the border worlds flew Ferrets and such, so I wouldn't trust creative license over fictitious universal logic.
They don't own the system...
One starbase, just like I said...
He he... just because BL used it, it makes it no more of a Black Lance carrier than the Intrepid.
Unless directly contradicting with the games, the books are official, therefore, the book is right in this case. And guess what, the BW did use Ferrets and such, even if we didn't see them during the game.
I agree with EW, axius was in ConFed space, BL was a just a sinister group, it did not oficial existed, You speak of the vesuvius but you could also include the Lexington in there, it was just full of Tolwyn mens in it.
Besides I belive that ConFed would be really piss off if someone run away with the most recent Carrier class, It was just being use by Tolwyn.
Besides I belive that ConFed would be really piss off if someone run away with the most recent Carrier class, It was just being use by Tolwyn.
LividLiquid
Rear Admiral
If I were to take over Texas, then UNOFFICIALLY take over Mississippi, and all of my men were there, all of my weapons, all of my orders were taken as the gospel, then it would be MY STATE. Just as the vesuvius was a BLACK LANCE carrier.
Axius was occipied by Black Lance forces. Their base of operations was there. They owned it. Period.
Axius was occipied by Black Lance forces. Their base of operations was there. They owned it. Period.
Yes, but the BL did not have official fund out of ConFed, the equipment they had was diverted from ConFed by Tolwyn.
The Vesuvius was a ConFed ship and did have ConFed forces on board but those forces were also interegaded on the BL, like those new pilots on the Lex.
The base itself could have been there as part of some cover op from long ago and it was "hidden" from ConFed by Tolwyn, BL was there but that does not mean that they build that base.
Tolwyn used his position inside ConFed to put mens like Paulson at crucial areas, even the Dragon was not know by ConFed until Blair expose Tolwyn, but it was made by ConFed military and "hidden" from the general ConFed Command by Tolwyn.
The Vesuvius was a ConFed ship and did have ConFed forces on board but those forces were also interegaded on the BL, like those new pilots on the Lex.
The base itself could have been there as part of some cover op from long ago and it was "hidden" from ConFed by Tolwyn, BL was there but that does not mean that they build that base.
Tolwyn used his position inside ConFed to put mens like Paulson at crucial areas, even the Dragon was not know by ConFed until Blair expose Tolwyn, but it was made by ConFed military and "hidden" from the general ConFed Command by Tolwyn.
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