Atmosphere capable?
- Thread starter Hobbie
- Start date
Supdon3
Kal-El
Everyone who started Image worked for Marvel first. McFarlane had a run on Spider-man, Jim Lee was on X-men and so on... All of these people know before hand that they are working with someone elses characters. That it is work for hire. These characters have been around as long as the writers and artists themselves. Why should Marvel or DC give them ownership of something that makes them alot of money, and that have had many other writers and artists work on them?
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
That's just silly Supdon. What about Alan Moore's "Watchmen", which is quite possible one of the 3 greatest comic books of all time. Also, when a person writes something, even if he doesn't own the characters, he owns the story rights. Look at Peter Telep, he doesn't own the Wing Commander universe, but he owns his own novels and his royalties reflect that.
McFarlane and the like didn't want rights to pre-exsiting characters, Sup. Once someone designed a character, like, say, Darkhawk, it was automaticly Marvel's. The creator got no rights, respect or title. Anything a person put to paper, Marvel owned. EVERYTHING.
Sadly, Marvel thinks like you and that's why they went down the crapper. This is why anyone with talent refuses to work with them anymore and why they are barely keeping afloat. Did you know they went bankrupt two years ago? Marvel is worthless since they can't get talent because they refuse to respect the people they have.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-02-2001 at 14:05]
McFarlane and the like didn't want rights to pre-exsiting characters, Sup. Once someone designed a character, like, say, Darkhawk, it was automaticly Marvel's. The creator got no rights, respect or title. Anything a person put to paper, Marvel owned. EVERYTHING.
Sadly, Marvel thinks like you and that's why they went down the crapper. This is why anyone with talent refuses to work with them anymore and why they are barely keeping afloat. Did you know they went bankrupt two years ago? Marvel is worthless since they can't get talent because they refuse to respect the people they have.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-02-2001 at 14:05]
Supdon3
Kal-El
Yes I know they went bankrupt, and that has a lot to do with the things that are wrong with the industry, not just creator owned work. Books like X-Men and Spider-man and JLA and so on sell way more than books that are creator owned (excpet for that short while Spawn sold like crazy) but overall these company owned characters sell more and not for a lack of being owned by someone. THey all have writers who write them cause they have writers that care about the characters and have stories they want to tell. J. Michael Strazynski is the current writer of one of the Spider-man books. He has his own books (Rising Stars, Midnight Nation) but he chooses to write Spiderman cause he cares for the character and has excellent stories to write. They have lots of talented and creative writers (yes, some the best in the business) that want to write for them. DC has the same policies as Marvel on creater owned work and they are putting out some of the best books out there. Sure they are stable casue they are owned by AOL/TIMEWarner and not Toybiz, but not allowing writers or artists to own the work they are commisioned to do is not why Marvel went bankrupt.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Marvel went bankrupt after attempting to "balloon" assests that they did not have. I would know, I was a stock holder. 
DC is still producing good stuff, though the last thing I loved was Green Lantern's Emerald Twilight. DC is much easier to work with, Marvel is just grabbing at straws as it pulls it's self into the coffin. The last good Spider-Man story was The Child Within for Spectacular. Then they pull out crap like Maximmum Carnage, The Ben Reilly Clone thing, Kraven's Son, Aunt May's death, Aunt May's death being a ruse by the Green Goblin (who was suppose to be dead again).
Spectacular Spider Man #200 was good, come to think of it.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-02-2001 at 14:25]
DC is still producing good stuff, though the last thing I loved was Green Lantern's Emerald Twilight. DC is much easier to work with, Marvel is just grabbing at straws as it pulls it's self into the coffin. The last good Spider-Man story was The Child Within for Spectacular. Then they pull out crap like Maximmum Carnage, The Ben Reilly Clone thing, Kraven's Son, Aunt May's death, Aunt May's death being a ruse by the Green Goblin (who was suppose to be dead again).
Spectacular Spider Man #200 was good, come to think of it.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-02-2001 at 14:25]
Supdon3
Kal-El
Hehe, you enjoyed one of the most controversial and hated storylines ever
(Emerald Twilight)
I cetainly wont argue with you that Marvel F***ed up. All those thing you mentioned about Spiderman are absolutely right. Most recently they completely failed to capitalize on the success of the X-Men movie. Sure they got Chris CLaremont to write the books, the guy who made them what they are today, but they were so completely filled with continuity (the X-Men being the most continuity heavy characters ever) and the stories were so bad that there was nothing in the way of sales jump or awareness made of comic books in general.
BUt things are changing. Joe Quesada was made EIC and has been doing lots of things to turn Marvel around. Grant Morrison on X-Men? Brilliant! THe Ultimate Spider-man and X-men books. Great writers and artists made these not only great reads, but a great way for new readers to jump into comics. Hes even going out of his way to patch things up with Alan Moore something that never would have been possible before.
Man, Im arguing alot for Marvel considering Im a DC guy myself
(Emerald Twilight)I cetainly wont argue with you that Marvel F***ed up. All those thing you mentioned about Spiderman are absolutely right. Most recently they completely failed to capitalize on the success of the X-Men movie. Sure they got Chris CLaremont to write the books, the guy who made them what they are today, but they were so completely filled with continuity (the X-Men being the most continuity heavy characters ever) and the stories were so bad that there was nothing in the way of sales jump or awareness made of comic books in general.
BUt things are changing. Joe Quesada was made EIC and has been doing lots of things to turn Marvel around. Grant Morrison on X-Men? Brilliant! THe Ultimate Spider-man and X-men books. Great writers and artists made these not only great reads, but a great way for new readers to jump into comics. Hes even going out of his way to patch things up with Alan Moore something that never would have been possible before.
Man, Im arguing alot for Marvel considering Im a DC guy myself
mpanty
Keen Commander
Wow... are these the ones where the story is "re-told" with a more "up to date", if you will allow me the expression, style?..
If it is what I'm thinking about, I read the first three of Ultimate Spider-Man, and boy... the drawings are AMAAAAZING!! A really really great buy!
[Edited by mpanty on 08-02-2001 at 14:57]
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Bagley was the artist in the first Spider-Man ish I ever got. It was also his first work on ASM. Had something to do with the Tri-Sentinel from the Cosmic Spider-man story.
I like Emerald Twilight because it was well written. I think it f*cked the GL continuity and fan base into the ground for sure, but it was powerful storytelling, esp the last part which was... utterly badass.
I don't think anyone short of Frank Miller or Alan Moore could save Marvel. Claremont worked on Fantastic Four and he got ripped apart by critics (for good reason). His heyday died when he left X-Men in the 70s.
Even "Silent Bob" couldn't save Daredevil.
I like Emerald Twilight because it was well written. I think it f*cked the GL continuity and fan base into the ground for sure, but it was powerful storytelling, esp the last part which was... utterly badass.
I don't think anyone short of Frank Miller or Alan Moore could save Marvel. Claremont worked on Fantastic Four and he got ripped apart by critics (for good reason). His heyday died when he left X-Men in the 70s.
Even "Silent Bob" couldn't save Daredevil.
Supdon3
Kal-El
Are you crazy? Daredevil has only gotten the ravest reviews from everyone. Im not sure how it is now that hes off it but his work was great, even if it didnt actually come out on time. And now Garth Ennis is making Punisher readable again. Kurt Busiek's Avengers is dong great, Spider-man is fun to read again there have been some really good runs on Thor, Captain America, the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man. Plus theres the upcoming Marvel Mature line. That could actually go eitherway though. Im pretty sure most people would say that Marvel is finally putting out good stuff. And of course theres the new X-teams working on the books. Morrison and Casey are dong great stuff.
Im getting kind of sick with myself here, giving Marvel such platitudes so I must say this:
DC kicks Marvels ass anyday!
whew. Feel better now.
Daredevil has only gotten the ravest reviews from everyone. Im not sure how it is now that hes off it but his work was great, even if it didnt actually come out on time. And now Garth Ennis is making Punisher readable again. Kurt Busiek's Avengers is dong great, Spider-man is fun to read again there have been some really good runs on Thor, Captain America, the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man. Plus theres the upcoming Marvel Mature line. That could actually go eitherway though. Im pretty sure most people would say that Marvel is finally putting out good stuff. And of course theres the new X-teams working on the books. Morrison and Casey are dong great stuff.Im getting kind of sick with myself here, giving Marvel such platitudes so I must say this:
DC kicks Marvels ass anyday!
whew. Feel better now.
Supdon3
Kal-El
Yeah, those were the highlights of the Superman animated series. That first Batman series was the absolute best and none of Marvel's shows have come close to either Batman or Superman. Superman or Batman, those are the way to go. Cant wait for the JLA animated series coming out in November. Gonna rock!
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
You forgot the near maddening perfection of Batman Beyond. I have the uncut movie, which is something that... should not be show to children or the general public.
Come to think of it, X-Men came in second to Batman's animated series. Batman Beyond after that.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-03-2001 at 00:53]
Come to think of it, X-Men came in second to Batman's animated series. Batman Beyond after that.
[Edited by LeHah on 08-03-2001 at 00:53]
Supdon3
Kal-El
Damn it! I only have the edited. I would love to see the unedited version. I think. I didnt really get to see much of Batman Beyond though. I got sick of X-men after watching the same exact episodes over and over and over and over again. Waiting every Saturday for a year and just seeing the same old crap.
mpanty
Keen Commander
Hey now that you mention this, a friend in Canada made me read this whole new Batman story comic...
IIRC, Gotham City had been bombed, or at least very much destroyed by some explosion, and the city was then "divided" in zones, each controlled by one head characte...
For example there was the Batman zone, the Two-Face zone, the Penguin zone, the Joker zone, the Cops zone etc...
The comic told the story of how these zones evolved, each character challenging the zone of the other and bearing the consequences...
I wonder if it was precisely Batman Beyond, but in any case it was incredibly well drawn, and I loved the dark atmosphere that it emanated...
Do you guys know which comic I'm talking about?
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The uncut version has some brutal moments, including a 360 pan of Batman whipping the ever-loving cr*p out of the Jokerz during the beginning fight, the Dee Dee twins using a stun gun on Batman and then beating him senseless...
The big one, of course, comes during the flashback sequence, when they show Robin being tortured by Joker and then Joker jamming a knife into Batman's knee. (OUCH)
Something everyone missed but me was during the beam attack on Gotham, ripped straight out of Akira (and animated by one of the guys who did Akira). There's a quick shot of the beam cutting through a courtyard and people and cars flying every where. Quite brutal!
Actually, if you have the edited movie on DVD, watch the trailer for the movie. It has footage from that 360 pan.
The big one, of course, comes during the flashback sequence, when they show Robin being tortured by Joker and then Joker jamming a knife into Batman's knee. (OUCH)
Something everyone missed but me was during the beam attack on Gotham, ripped straight out of Akira (and animated by one of the guys who did Akira). There's a quick shot of the beam cutting through a courtyard and people and cars flying every where. Quite brutal!
Actually, if you have the edited movie on DVD, watch the trailer for the movie. It has footage from that 360 pan.