An interesting problem...

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Well, not so much of a problem - more of an opportunity. Here's what's up - I'm starting work on the Tarsus cockpit, and I'm kinda at a loss on how to texture it. Now, on the one hand I have the excellent and completely accurate model that BradMick made - I definately want to use that to it's fullest - but then I also have the cockpit I made for the Hunchback. So the issue is this: the Hunchback looks more advanced than the Tarsus, which really won't do.
The Tarsus in our game is a rather highend ship, somewhat similar to a mix between the Demon and the Orion in the original Privateer. The Hunchback is the low-end starter ship.

So I've got a couple of different options here.
1. Change the texture of the Tarsus cockpit to fit more in line with the art I've already created.
2. Go back and change the Hunchback cockpit to be...somehow less advanced looking.
3. Don't mess with the texture of either, and just live with the visual disconnect.

My personal preference here is to change and enhance the textures of the Tarsus to look newer, and more advanced - more in line with the stuff that I've already created. Mainly in an attempt to keep the whole art style consistent. However, I know you guys are going to want to fly the Tarsus not some dumbass artists' wet-dream interpretation. So if I go that route, you have my solemn promise that whatever modifications are made will be minor - and consist mainly of making the displays and equipment look like it came from the WC1 time period. Like the Hunchback stuff does. But that's only if I choose to go that route.

Anyhow, I'm wondering what the community would like to see.
 

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Maj.Striker

Swabbie
Banned
Well, that's a fantastic...and I mean absolutely fantastic ship interior you have there for the hunchback. However, I strongly recommend against changing anything to the Tarsus' interior. One of the great selling points of Pioneer is how extremely accurate the models are (of the ships for which we have defined canon anyway). So, the Tarsus doesn't look quite as advanced as the Hunback on the inside? Doesn't matter...that baby has got it where it counts. It's like comparing a Dodge Viper to a Lexus. Sure the viper's interior isn't as nice and luxurious as the Lexus but underneath the hood is where your money's at. You get what I'm saying?
 

Fatcat

Swabbie
Banned
I would definitly say to stick with the original Tarus cockpit. The Hunchback's interior is outstanding, my only suggestion is to remove some of those glowing panels, like the one on the floor and door.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I would have to say stick with the original Tarsus cockpit, not because I'm a jerk (though, I am a jerk), but because it's part of your artistic conceit -- visually matching or not.

The dramatic purpose of having the Tarsus be the 'reward' ship is that it creates a complete perspective towards and attaches the game to the original Privateer in an ironic fashion.

The goal is to have the player go "oooooooh... neat!" with regards to the Tarsus -- by changing the Tarsus to look like your other ships instead of it did in Privateer, you lose that effect.

Consider the recent 'Mirror Universe' episode of Enterprise where they run into a 'classic Trek' starship complete with 1960s-era sets and costumes. From a purely logical "visual/art" perspective, the show would be completely justified in toning down the 1960s ship to match the visual style of the modern series... but doing that would ruin the *point* of having the ship there in the first place, which is as essential to the art as anything visual.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Okay - To be perfectly honest, that's the response I thought I would get. And I agree. Though LOAF - the Tarsus isn't a reward ship, at least I don't think it is. It's just another ship you can buy. It's just our tie between the two games. But good point.
Fatcat: Yeah. I think I may have gone overboard there. I'll get rid of those.
Maj Striker: Yep.

So would anyone have an objection if I took the original Tarsus cockpit - with all the bells and whistles (Goddamn switches!) and just cleaned it up a bit? By that I mean, more detail, more segments in the chair so it doesn't look so low-poly-crappy, and basically just made it high-res? No real changes, just making it up to today's standards? It'd be the same cockpit - same color, same controls, same details but just higher-poly, and higher-detail maybe an extra panel here or there to cover some of the visually empty spots. ( I do have to make something up for the ceiling and floor - nothing was ever shown on those...but that's the extent of it.) That sound acceptable?
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Well, the Tarsus was originally created for the Exploratory Service, so it was an "institutional" vessel, sort of like military HMV's--very utilitarian. The Hunchback, on the other hand, seems to have been a retail spacecraft, so the manufacturer would have put more effort into making it look good.

BTW: unless the Pioneer Tarsus is faster than the Privateer Tarsus (300 kps cruise / 600 kps afterburner), then it's going to be a poor match for Confed and Kilrathi enemies. I would reccommend 350/900 or so--it ought to be able to keep up with a Scimitar. You could say that the downgraded capabilities of the Privateer Tarsus is the result of the higher-end systems being taken out and replaced with retail ones when they were resold on the open market.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Okay - To be perfectly honest, that's the response I thought I would get. And I agree. Though LOAF - the Tarsus isn't a reward ship, at least I don't think it is. It's just another ship you can buy. It's just our tie between the two games. But good point.

Well, you described it as the 'high end ship' in your original post, so I assumed it was likened to Privateer's reward ship (the Centurion).

So would anyone have an objection if I took the original Tarsus cockpit - with all the bells and whistles (Goddamn switches!) and just cleaned it up a bit? By that I mean, more detail, more segments in the chair so it doesn't look so low-poly-crappy, and basically just made it high-res? No real changes, just making it up to today's standards? It'd be the same cockpit - same color, same controls, same details but just higher-poly, and higher-detail maybe an extra panel here or there to cover some of the visually empty spots. ( I do have to make something up for the ceiling and floor - nothing was ever shown on those...but that's the extent of it.) That sound acceptable?

Yeah, you can detail all kinds of stuff -- let people see indvidual keys on the space keyboard, put little labels around the switches like a real fighter, that kind of thing.

Fill empty space with tchachkes -- take a page from Pacific Strike and stick a pin up in an empty space in the cockpit, have a clip board with something on it floating around, that kind of thing.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Heh, Yes, it is a higher end ship, just not the highest. Higher than the hunchback. :D I think the reward ship in this one will be the Phalanx - it's the one that looks like a Talon prototype. Four guns..hell it's almost the same specs as the Centurion - I think that's the idea. We didn't want to screw with anything that worked fine. Which is pretty much everything. Hell, it is everything. As far as I know, we're not screwing with ANY of the gameplay mechanics of the original - we're just opening up the universe to the player a bit. Allowing more gameplay options, (Actually BE a pirate, shipping tycoon, whatever) and the like. And moving the timeline back 20 years.
And that's perfect - exactly what I had in mind for the modifications. Except for the pin-up. Welll.......ok. :p The other thought I had is a hand-written list of the cargo you have on board. Stuff like that. Surprisingly, that's easier than it might sound - no different than putting the various screen displays in.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Well from what I gather, the Hunchback would be the poorest fighter, then the Hauler (or whatever you call the cargoship), then the Tarsus and the Minotaur (or whatever you rename the heavily armored Orion-analogue), then the Phalanx would be the strongest player-flyable fighter.

For gameplay balance, the Tarsus would have to have more of everything than the Hunchback (much as the Galaxy has more of everything than the Tarsus), but the Hunchback must still be strong/fast enough that you can fight/flee the enemies that you would encounter prior to being able to afford a better ship.

As I see it, the Hauler, Minotaur (or whatever you call it), and Phalanx would form a sort of triangle like the Galaxy, Orion, and Centurion do--one ship has lots of cargo space, one has lots of defense, and one has lots of speed. The Tarsus would sit in the middle of this triangle, having more speed and defense than the Hauler and more cargo room than the Phalanx. A player ought to be able to complete the campaign using any of the four ships other than the Hunchback.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
I believe we changed the Minotaur to Hydra - because there was already a Minotaur in the WC timeline. And the Hauler is a "Camel" class. Actually, the main draw of the Tarsus is that it will have around half again the amount of jump fuel as all the other ships, thus making it good for out of the way smuggler runs. Or tracking down fugitives.
The ship types and some general roles are as follows:

Hunchback: Starter Freighter/Smuggler
Tarsus: Patrol/Smuggler/Bounty Hunter (Long range tracking ability)
Camel: Merchant/Pirate Baron/Escorted Smuggler
Hydra: Bounty Hunter/Pirate Baron/Armed Smuggler/Armed Transport/Heavy Fighter
Phalanx: Fighter/Bounty Hunter/Hired Gun/Assassin

So in terms of sheer firepower, the Hydra is as good as it gets. Twin turrets, three forward guns. Lotsa hardpoints.

Hope this helps explain it. Each ship has a definate space to fill.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
adding more details to the tarsus cockpit to make the displays more advanced
would do.. also, as for looking more advanced; the hunchback has lots of indicators
all over the place, while the tarsus only has a few displays. this is easier to oversee,
and i would consider this as a possible innovation.
 
I

ineligible

Guest
to be honest i hated the tarsus in the original privateer (but in pioneer i like it :D), but that was because it was a bad ship in privateer (hence being a starter ship) anyway in pioneer the tarsus is new and almost top of the line (kinda) and it isn't second hand or third hand like it was in privateer so natually you should make it look new, maybe less "bastardized" after all i'm sure in privateer it would have had its original comm, nav, engines, weapons, cockpit instruments, etc. ripped out and sold on the open market
before good old grayson got his hands on it

so in short maybe make it look newer, less dirty, and a less patchwork cockpit

anyway good luck with pioneer found it afew days ago looks awesome, good luck :D
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Ijuin said:
BTW: unless the Pioneer Tarsus is faster than the Privateer Tarsus (300 kps cruise / 600 kps afterburner), then it's going to be a poor match for Confed and Kilrathi enemies. I would reccommend 350/900 or so--it ought to be able to keep up with a Scimitar. You could say that the downgraded capabilities of the Privateer Tarsus is the result of the higher-end systems being taken out and replaced with retail ones when they were resold on the open market.
Ugh, what? The Tarsus "ought" to be able to keep up with a Scimitar? Why? The Tarsus ought to, above all, be a Tarsus.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
And that's perfect - exactly what I had in mind for the modifications. Except for the pin-up. Welll.......ok. :p The other thought I had is a hand-written list of the cargo you have on board. Stuff like that. Surprisingly, that's easier than it might sound - no different than putting the various screen displays in.

Hehe, there's all kinds of stuff you could stick in there. Just think about what you usually find lying around in a car -- a half folded wrong star map, a spent can of space cola, a Luna Jones space-bobblehead, a dog-eared copy of Claw Marks (or a Joan's guide).. endless possibilities.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Hehe, I don't think the WCP Hydra is a concern in that regard, Mace - I'm sure there's no problem with a civilian ship class in 2654 having the same name as a military codename assigned thirty years later to an alien cruiser class.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
The Tarsus will be identical to the one in the original Privateer. The thing it has that none of the other ships has - its "hook" - is the massive amount of jump fuel it can hold and the distance it can go before having to re-fuel. This will be at least half again the distance of the other long ranged ship you can buy.

So...If we were comparing travel distances....in number of jumps.

-------NOT FINAL------
Hunchback: 2
Hydra:3
Phalanx:4
Camel:5
Tarsus:8
-------NOT FINAL------

So you could travel almost 2/3s of the way across the gameplay sandbox in a Tarsus without having to re-fuel. You can also get a fair way into the Kilrathi systems, and still make it back. That's just not happening in a Phalanx - not on your own, anyway. With a hired Diligent? Maybe. But then you have to protect the Diligent. A fuel tanker in Kilrathi territory. Good luck with that. :D
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Hmm, wasn't the Tarsus in Privateer limited to four jumps? IIRC, I once went to re-visit Delta Prime after the storyline to find out if the derelict base really did disappear... and sure enough, I was stuck with no fuel for the trip home :). Admittedly, that was in a Centurion, but all Priv ships had the same fuel limit.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
I'm fairly certain all the ships in the original had the same jump limitations. 6? 5? something like that. But I could be definately wrong on that - it's happened before. :D
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Yeah, I did say they all had the same limit... my point, though, is that whatever the limit was for all ships in Priv, it should also be the limit for the Tarsus in Pioneer. Other than that, though, your basic idea (that other ships in 2654 would be able to jump less than the Tarsus) makes sense... it's just that you may need to revise their jump limits downwards a bit, perhaps even to the point of having a one-jump ship (hey, that's all a Broadsword can manage :p ).
 
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