Although true that war gives a race a goal to excel and develop, there is still the flip side. In war, especially if a hypothetical opponent is indiscriminate, any target is fair game. Military bases, ships, habitats, even labs. Facilities can be struck, destroyed, and lives lost. Even scientists and engineers, as well as data about their work....ie, technology is lost, development becomes stagnant when the very avenue by which they can progress is suddenly rendered inoperative.
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Although true that war gives a race a goal to excel and develop, there is still the flip side. In war, especially if a hypothetical opponent is indiscriminate, any target is fair game. Military bases, ships, habitats, even labs. Facilities can be struck, destroyed, and lives lost. Even scientists and engineers, as well as data about their work....ie, technology is lost, development becomes stagnant when the very avenue by which they can progress is suddenly rendered inoperative.
Master_Anarchist
Spaceman
war will always inspire new technology as long as it lasts.
if you win the war quick, no need for new tech. but if it lasts for a long time, then you need to improve to give yourself an advantage/keep up with the enemy. the kilrathi war (although not real) is an example of this, WC1 fighters (confed) had less than 10cm armour, now they have hundreds of cm of armour. guns improved, missiles, cap ships, etc. same thing happened in real life world war 2. by the end the usa had strategic arms, when at the start there was nothing close to them.
on this nephilim subject, they were far too weak. but u have to consider that it was a scouting force. we may think the kraken and tiamat were skip killer/dreadnaught. but would you send your biggest badass ships scouting? i wouldnt. (just a thought, one of u all knowing people wil prob smack me down here) so the dreadnaughts may well have been scout class. and in the end movie you see a ship coming through, i think its a tiamat class, now would you send your best ship through first?
if you win the war quick, no need for new tech. but if it lasts for a long time, then you need to improve to give yourself an advantage/keep up with the enemy. the kilrathi war (although not real) is an example of this, WC1 fighters (confed) had less than 10cm armour, now they have hundreds of cm of armour. guns improved, missiles, cap ships, etc. same thing happened in real life world war 2. by the end the usa had strategic arms, when at the start there was nothing close to them.
on this nephilim subject, they were far too weak. but u have to consider that it was a scouting force. we may think the kraken and tiamat were skip killer/dreadnaught. but would you send your biggest badass ships scouting? i wouldnt. (just a thought, one of u all knowing people wil prob smack me down here) so the dreadnaughts may well have been scout class. and in the end movie you see a ship coming through, i think its a tiamat class, now would you send your best ship through first?
Quarto: Precisely. What I meant when I spoke of loss of life, is just that: the loss of specific lives, particularly the brains of the race who can produce and further their technology. This doesn't necessarily mean their ability to produce what they have, but to produce something new and improved. Not easy to do when there is that serious a brain drain.
Master Anarchist:
"war will always inspire new technology as long as it lasts.
if you win the war quick, no need for new tech. but if it lasts for a long time, then you need to improve to give yourself an advantage/keep up with the enemy."
I agree. And this illustrates my earlier argument, about the need to develop. The need may not have been felt, IF they didn't have to face the requirement of keeping up with someone else, when they may have been relatively superior. The same way in real life whether or not budgets get approved or not for new toys in the armed forces.
Master Anarchist:
"war will always inspire new technology as long as it lasts.
if you win the war quick, no need for new tech. but if it lasts for a long time, then you need to improve to give yourself an advantage/keep up with the enemy."
I agree. And this illustrates my earlier argument, about the need to develop. The need may not have been felt, IF they didn't have to face the requirement of keeping up with someone else, when they may have been relatively superior. The same way in real life whether or not budgets get approved or not for new toys in the armed forces.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Firstly, I've got to admit that for a supposedly superior race the bugs ships die fairly easily. On the other hand, the game has got to be playable, even by newbies, so don't complain too much until you're consistantly beating the game on 'you must be kidding' difficulty. Actually, I can just imagine the designers sitting down to plan out this game.
Designer 1 : "So, what's the plan?"
Designer 2 : "Well, I figure we have the player on patrol. He run's into this alien spaceship. It's from a race of super-warriors so it's twice as fast, has these guns that can kill you in a single hit, and its shields are inpenetrable."
Designer 1 : "Umm, won't that make it tough to beat?"
Designer 2 : "Yup, that way we only need to make 1 mission and a You Lose screen. We'll have this game shipped in a week!"
Anyway, back to reality, or at least our version of it. We seem to feel that the bugs aren't strong enough. What then are the bugs strengths? Hypothetically, superior technology and superior numbers.
First, lets look at numbers. It is theoretically possible the bugs have superior numbers. Their ships appear to be organic in nature, which could suggest that they are grown as much as built, allowing cheap, quick construction. This may mean sacrificing some effectiveness (a grown ship/weapon may not be as strong/damaging as a 'built' one) in exchange for rapid production. They certainly seem to have the numbers in most encounters. It does, however, result in some significant disadvantages, particularly with regard to the Midway. Firstly, the bug force you encounter is a scouting/beachhead force. They have no production facilities here, so their numbers are limited by how fast they can get ships through the jump gate, not how fast they can be produced. We have presumbeably seen only a fraction of their true numbers. Secondly, the Midway is a moving target, not a stationary one. She can pick and choose most of her movements/attacks. One would imagine that she would retreat, rather then face vastly superior numbers. For the bugs to bring their superior numbers to bear, they must first locate, then corner the Midway. The Kilrathi, who are presumeably trying to defend fixed positions, are quickly destroyed.
Now lets look at technology. The Nephilm will not necessarily have a vastly superior technology than ours, and there are many reasons for this. Firstly, as has been previously stated, war is a great drive for advances in technology, particularly those involved with killing other things. The humans and Kilrathi have been engaged in a brutal war for over 40 years. They haven't wasted their time, but have instead spent it perfecting their killing equipment. A single Thunderbolt could take down a squadron of Raptors without blinking an eye, and then have its arse handed to it by a Vampire. The Midway, while carrying fewer fighters than a Versuvius, is still chock full of the best fighters ever built. Even the 'lowly' Pirahnas and Tigersharks are still way ahead of their counterparts from only a few years previous.
In contrast to the Terran/Kilrathi war, the Nephilm have not (as far as I am aware) been involved in a major conflict against an equal opponent. Their technology, without a challenge or motivation, has been stagnating. Perhaps that is one reason why the bugs are here now. They have been here before (well, into Kilrathi space at least). Why not destroy us/them then? Because we weren't a challenge? or because they would have lost out on an oportunity to grow, and condemned themselves to further stagnation. They could have destroyed us without losing a single ship, but would have gained nothing in return. The bugs DO take out the cats, with their 'ancient' (read 10 years old) technology, with relativele ease.
Maybe it's just that I got better as the game progressed, but to me the bugs DO start with a technological advantage, one which decreases with time. When you first encounter them, the bugs are actually quite tough. Even though admittedly you are flying Piranas and Tigersharks at the time, even the Mantas and Morays are difficult to destroy. Your lasers and mass drivers hardly seem to scratch them. I know I usually had to resort to the Stormfire cannon and Charging Mass Drivers. Fortunately, the Midway's research division quickly picks up the slack. To me, your guns become more effective as the game goes on. The firepower of the Panther and Wasp are not enormously higher than the light fighters you fly previously (Panther : 2 Tachyon + 2 Ion = 482CM/S c.f. Tigershark : 2 Lasers + 2 Mass Drivers = 377CM/S), yet the Panther will chew through an enemy much faster then the Tigershark. I imagine your guns are 'tweaked' by the research division to make them more effective. Also, you gain access to the 'enhanced' missiles. Add in the fact that Midway steals the ship killer cannon and uses it to destroy a significant portion of the bug fleet.
Firstly, I've got to admit that for a supposedly superior race the bugs ships die fairly easily. On the other hand, the game has got to be playable, even by newbies, so don't complain too much until you're consistantly beating the game on 'you must be kidding' difficulty. Actually, I can just imagine the designers sitting down to plan out this game.
Designer 1 : "So, what's the plan?"
Designer 2 : "Well, I figure we have the player on patrol. He run's into this alien spaceship. It's from a race of super-warriors so it's twice as fast, has these guns that can kill you in a single hit, and its shields are inpenetrable."
Designer 1 : "Umm, won't that make it tough to beat?"
Designer 2 : "Yup, that way we only need to make 1 mission and a You Lose screen. We'll have this game shipped in a week!"
Anyway, back to reality, or at least our version of it. We seem to feel that the bugs aren't strong enough. What then are the bugs strengths? Hypothetically, superior technology and superior numbers.
First, lets look at numbers. It is theoretically possible the bugs have superior numbers. Their ships appear to be organic in nature, which could suggest that they are grown as much as built, allowing cheap, quick construction. This may mean sacrificing some effectiveness (a grown ship/weapon may not be as strong/damaging as a 'built' one) in exchange for rapid production. They certainly seem to have the numbers in most encounters. It does, however, result in some significant disadvantages, particularly with regard to the Midway. Firstly, the bug force you encounter is a scouting/beachhead force. They have no production facilities here, so their numbers are limited by how fast they can get ships through the jump gate, not how fast they can be produced. We have presumbeably seen only a fraction of their true numbers. Secondly, the Midway is a moving target, not a stationary one. She can pick and choose most of her movements/attacks. One would imagine that she would retreat, rather then face vastly superior numbers. For the bugs to bring their superior numbers to bear, they must first locate, then corner the Midway. The Kilrathi, who are presumeably trying to defend fixed positions, are quickly destroyed.
Now lets look at technology. The Nephilm will not necessarily have a vastly superior technology than ours, and there are many reasons for this. Firstly, as has been previously stated, war is a great drive for advances in technology, particularly those involved with killing other things. The humans and Kilrathi have been engaged in a brutal war for over 40 years. They haven't wasted their time, but have instead spent it perfecting their killing equipment. A single Thunderbolt could take down a squadron of Raptors without blinking an eye, and then have its arse handed to it by a Vampire. The Midway, while carrying fewer fighters than a Versuvius, is still chock full of the best fighters ever built. Even the 'lowly' Pirahnas and Tigersharks are still way ahead of their counterparts from only a few years previous.
In contrast to the Terran/Kilrathi war, the Nephilm have not (as far as I am aware) been involved in a major conflict against an equal opponent. Their technology, without a challenge or motivation, has been stagnating. Perhaps that is one reason why the bugs are here now. They have been here before (well, into Kilrathi space at least). Why not destroy us/them then? Because we weren't a challenge? or because they would have lost out on an oportunity to grow, and condemned themselves to further stagnation. They could have destroyed us without losing a single ship, but would have gained nothing in return. The bugs DO take out the cats, with their 'ancient' (read 10 years old) technology, with relativele ease.
Maybe it's just that I got better as the game progressed, but to me the bugs DO start with a technological advantage, one which decreases with time. When you first encounter them, the bugs are actually quite tough. Even though admittedly you are flying Piranas and Tigersharks at the time, even the Mantas and Morays are difficult to destroy. Your lasers and mass drivers hardly seem to scratch them. I know I usually had to resort to the Stormfire cannon and Charging Mass Drivers. Fortunately, the Midway's research division quickly picks up the slack. To me, your guns become more effective as the game goes on. The firepower of the Panther and Wasp are not enormously higher than the light fighters you fly previously (Panther : 2 Tachyon + 2 Ion = 482CM/S c.f. Tigershark : 2 Lasers + 2 Mass Drivers = 377CM/S), yet the Panther will chew through an enemy much faster then the Tigershark. I imagine your guns are 'tweaked' by the research division to make them more effective. Also, you gain access to the 'enhanced' missiles. Add in the fact that Midway steals the ship killer cannon and uses it to destroy a significant portion of the bug fleet.
There are 5 settings of difficulty in WCP. Rookie should indeed be hard and Nightmare should be almost impossible, except I have a harder time with WC4 on Ace difficulty than on WCP's Nightmare. Second, we know nothing at all about the Bug's plans so saying that they haven't been fighting an equal foe is useless conjecture simply because it is the story that says that the bugs are the ultimate foe, which they obviously aren't. And the reason, I will bet, that you had a harder time with the bugs than later on is that you figured out the simplistic AI of them. After about 10 battles (your first time through) you have seen every lousy tactic they have (Which their favorite consists of afterburning away and then heading straight towards you over and over again) and you learn how to defend against it. Let's admit it, Origin seriously dropped the ball on the AI on this one.
One other thought....
Another consideration which we also seem to be forgetting is WHEN the Kilrathi wrote K'nathrak. If the Nephilim were indeed, the "Ultimate Evil" described in the prophecy, then I'd think this is what they, a starfaring race would seem like to a bunch of stone throwing, axe wielding primitives, like the Kilrathi were at one time when they first met.
Now obviously, the bugs aren't as tough as legend would lead us to believe, at least not so far. But then humans and the Kilrathi have had quite a bit of time to prepare. The Kilrathi could have just as easily assumed the Nephilim were invincible, even we would, I'd surmise, if we were looking down the muzzle of that ship-killer weapon of theirs straight off the bat.
Another consideration which we also seem to be forgetting is WHEN the Kilrathi wrote K'nathrak. If the Nephilim were indeed, the "Ultimate Evil" described in the prophecy, then I'd think this is what they, a starfaring race would seem like to a bunch of stone throwing, axe wielding primitives, like the Kilrathi were at one time when they first met.
Now obviously, the bugs aren't as tough as legend would lead us to believe, at least not so far. But then humans and the Kilrathi have had quite a bit of time to prepare. The Kilrathi could have just as easily assumed the Nephilim were invincible, even we would, I'd surmise, if we were looking down the muzzle of that ship-killer weapon of theirs straight off the bat.
Hey! Plot device! 
If Confed R&D was able to get that, then I'd suppose they had their own agents inside the Church of Man in the Gemini sector? It's the only other time the Steltek gun was out of player sight.
OR...since you only found one gun on the fighter, whatever happened to the other weapon? 
Maybe Exploratory Services isn't telling us everything after all....
Thinking about it though, it does seem plausible. The commercially available Fusion cannon in Gemini functions like the powered down version. The Black Lance Fission gun obviously has a boosted output because of the charge mode. Based on the same platform perhaps? Or maybe on the "acquired" Nephilim fighter in the manual's fiction? The Devastator's Plasma gun had to come from somewhere....
If Confed R&D was able to get that, then I'd suppose they had their own agents inside the Church of Man in the Gemini sector? It's the only other time the Steltek gun was out of player sight.
OR...since you only found one gun on the fighter, whatever happened to the other weapon? Maybe Exploratory Services isn't telling us everything after all....Thinking about it though, it does seem plausible. The commercially available Fusion cannon in Gemini functions like the powered down version. The Black Lance Fission gun obviously has a boosted output because of the charge mode. Based on the same platform perhaps? Or maybe on the "acquired" Nephilim fighter in the manual's fiction? The Devastator's Plasma gun had to come from somewhere....
Master_Anarchist
Spaceman
how can a fusion gun and a fission gun be based on the same platform? (im assuming you mean nuclear here so if not let me know) fission and fusion are completely different
oh, and whoever gave the damage/salvo in numbers, where did you get it from? i never saw it in the manual...
oh, and whoever gave the damage/salvo in numbers, where did you get it from? i never saw it in the manual...
Master_Anarchist
Spaceman
yeah but some people on this board use them interchangeably.
Let me put something strait about my post.
1)Fision Gun is on Privatter.
2)Fission Gun is on WC IV.
But there are quite similar even in the way they look after being fired so I made a mistake about the name but Origin could have also made a mistake in the spelling.
The Fision gun is the copied steltek Gun that is being used by the Church of Man in RF, they sell those guns for making more Cash, after all the new leader of the church of man simple wanted to control Gemini, not to get riden of Tecnology.
So my post "what do you think that the fision gun is?" is correct about that weapon being the Church of Man copy of the Steltek gun, what the FISSION gun I do not know? it a misspelling on the part of Origin? a weapon based on the FISION gun? a new type of Weapon?
That is open for debate.
1)Fision Gun is on Privatter.
2)Fission Gun is on WC IV.
But there are quite similar even in the way they look after being fired so I made a mistake about the name but Origin could have also made a mistake in the spelling.
The Fision gun is the copied steltek Gun that is being used by the Church of Man in RF, they sell those guns for making more Cash, after all the new leader of the church of man simple wanted to control Gemini, not to get riden of Tecnology.
So my post "what do you think that the fision gun is?" is correct about that weapon being the Church of Man copy of the Steltek gun, what the FISSION gun I do not know? it a misspelling on the part of Origin? a weapon based on the FISION gun? a new type of Weapon?
That is open for debate.