Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Originally posted by Bob McDob
Nephilem = Evangelion + Babylon5.
Thus Nephilim = Evangelion + (Lord of the Rings * Star Trek)
It's crazy sci fi math time!
A discussion on the true nature of the Nephilim
- Thread starter $tormin
- Start date
Thus Nephilim = Evangelion + (Lord of the Rings * Star Trek)
It's crazy sci fi math time!
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Raptor: I don't think I'm getting across here . See, you're saying that the Border Worlders would have no trouble fighting the Kilrathi, based on the fact that they beat the Black Lance. True enough, the Border Worlds did defeat the Black Lance, but it was a *political* battle. There was only one BW-BL military battle, and it was the Mount St. Helens that saved the day. Blair just happened to deliver the final shot. Other than that, the Border Worlds never actually saw what the Black Lance could do, militarily. They fought against BL-paid pirates, but not the BL itself. In a what-if military BW-BL confrontation, the Black Lance would destroy the BW Militia faster than you could blink.
Hence my original point, that your logic is incorrect. Because a political victory on the floor of the Senate is wonderful and everything, if your enemy happens to be a super-secret military organisation that has no right to exist. But when it comes to the Kilrathi, there is *no* political solution. There is no Kilrathi equivalent of Paladin, whom you can ask nicely if they could please stop the raids. In short, a political victory over one enemy does not mean that they can defeat a totally different foe militarily.
[Edited by Quarto on 06-25-2001 at 08:06]
. See, you're saying that the Border Worlders would have no trouble fighting the Kilrathi, based on the fact that they beat the Black Lance. True enough, the Border Worlds did defeat the Black Lance, but it was a *political* battle. There was only one BW-BL military battle, and it was the Mount St. Helens that saved the day. Blair just happened to deliver the final shot. Other than that, the Border Worlds never actually saw what the Black Lance could do, militarily. They fought against BL-paid pirates, but not the BL itself. In a what-if military BW-BL confrontation, the Black Lance would destroy the BW Militia faster than you could blink.Hence my original point, that your logic is incorrect. Because a political victory on the floor of the Senate is wonderful and everything, if your enemy happens to be a super-secret military organisation that has no right to exist. But when it comes to the Kilrathi, there is *no* political solution. There is no Kilrathi equivalent of Paladin, whom you can ask nicely if they could please stop the raids. In short, a political victory over one enemy does not mean that they can defeat a totally different foe militarily.
[Edited by Quarto on 06-25-2001 at 08:06]
The "Aligned Peoples" are what the Bugs refer to themselves
as during WCP:SO (in taunts such as "Your race shall be
swept aside by the Aligned Peoples!").
They call humans "non-aligned" (in WCP). There is no indicationwhat they call the Kilrathi. Were the Kilrathi also "non-aligned?" Or something else entirely?
I've already posted some speculation on that, but I'll be
happy to respond if you've got something new to add.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
Not quite. The scene you're referring to has Finely mentioning some of the alien communications they intercepted, which feature organic tissue scans and mention the "non-aligned". The tissues aren't specified, and could be either Kilrathi or human...though it's implied that Blair is the one being scanned.
I also don't recall reading anything about the Kilrathi regularly raiding the BW. From what I've read of the WC4 novel, they were just warring amongst themselves (though Tolwyn seemed to think that this made them stronger, he didn't seem to realize that they were also battering themselves down). I haven't read False Colors, but I just ordered it at my local Barnes & Noble.
Unless the Border Worlds put all of their ships into the fight with the Lance (and I mean ALL, a combined fleet), they'd lose the battle. The Black Lance had the hit and fade down to an art, and with each ship carrying multiple FlashPaks, they'd quickly devastate the BW capships.
[Edited by Nep Parth on 06-25-2001 at 14:43]
I also don't recall reading anything about the Kilrathi regularly raiding the BW. From what I've read of the WC4 novel, they were just warring amongst themselves (though Tolwyn seemed to think that this made them stronger, he didn't seem to realize that they were also battering themselves down). I haven't read False Colors, but I just ordered it at my local Barnes & Noble.
Unless the Border Worlds put all of their ships into the fight with the Lance (and I mean ALL, a combined fleet), they'd lose the battle. The Black Lance had the hit and fade down to an art, and with each ship carrying multiple FlashPaks, they'd quickly devastate the BW capships.
[Edited by Nep Parth on 06-25-2001 at 14:43]
Raptor: I don't think I'm getting across here
Actually, the Saint Helens was crippled by the Vesuvius. The Vesuvius was still fighting fit, when the MSH was knocked ourt. While Blair did fire the killing shot, it took the pilots from the Intrepid and Priceton to hold the rest of the Black Lance at bay.
And there were a heck of a lot more BW-BL battles, from the capturing of the carrier to the skirmish with the Lexington to the destruction of the EW jammer in Paleus. In a what if confrontation, I might concede that point. However, to me, a Black Lance that can fight openly isn't the Black Lance at all, because remaing covert was so integral to their sucess and their strategy. If they came out in the open to fight as you describe, Confed would come down on them like an avalance. What I was disputing was your point that the Border Worlders were not able to take on the Black Lance in the confrontation that did happen in WC4. They took out four Dragon squadrons, crippled the Lexington and destroyed the Vesuvius, whiach to me
Again, the political victory would not have been possible *without* being able to defeat the Black Lance militarily on the way to Earth. The whole of WC4 was about fighting and defeating the Black Lance to expose their plot, and in the process we took out virtually all their military ability. That is far from being a solely politcal victory.
Best, Raptor
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Well now, the Lexington skirmish was against Confed forces, and the jammer in Peleus was pirates - not Black Lance, in the same way that we don't say that Americans fought Soviets in Vietnam.
But the Black Lance didn't fight covertly... they didn't fight at all, except for that one Vesuvius incident (I don't count the Axius incursion or the capture of the Dragons - those were not offensive operations). They could't fight, because they were too busy blaming the Border Worlds. Anyway, once Tolwyn got to the assembly, Confed would have been on BL's side. That, I repeat again, is my point - the Border Worlds did not win the war, but rather prevented it from taking place. A victory, but of a different kind.
Fair enough, but the fact remains that if it hadn't been for the political victory, the Black Lance would have rapidly recovered from its losses and crushed the Border Worlds in a *real* military confrontation.
Say, do you also feel like you're just repeating yourself?
Rami Sihvo
Spaceman
Raptor, there was a mention of "Great hunt" in HTL meaning that after WC4 BL was destroyed by Confed and BW. Is there any offical refereces to this or is all of this just
a fanfiction?
a fanfiction?
That's crap and you know it. No future WC game is going to be modelled on a nightmare situation where the Nephilim overwhelm and waste the Confederation and there's no way to win. In the next game the Nephilim will undoubtedly have improved their tactics and such but they remain a fallible foe. Don't let their superior numbers overwhelm you, Confed has its advantages. Like you said Midway's pilots accounted for 4000+ of the enemy. That's got to count for something.
[Edited by Penguin on 06-26-2001 at 05:12]
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Just FanFic.
Thats obviously true. I was more pointing to the idea of an open conflict situation. The nature of Wing Commander points to an "Achilles Heel" which will stop, or hamper their entrance to Confed space.
As for the nightmare situation, I think a case could be made that all the games are "nightmare" situations. The idea is, if you don't kill everything out there, Earth is destroyed. If thats not a nightmare, then I guess I'm a little confused.
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
Nobody seems to get my point.
All I'm SAYING (don't worry, I won't drag in anything...that I don't have to
) is that I think - nay, know - the Nephilem represent some sort of Armageddon. After all, supposedly they are the Star Gods, they are part of the Kilrathi religion - it all has some sort of connection with the Book of Revelation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Earth vaporised in the final chapter while the Horsemen of the Apocolypse ride - still, I think you get my point. Which had something to do with Death, I think.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The bugs dont impress me enough to base an entire area of Apocrapha around. Bugs are cool, yeah, but they weren't the cats. I think that the Kilrathi just have been getting knocked around so bad recently that they decided that the "Coming of the Bugs" applied to their ancient texts.
