Wing Commander....DEAD?

The Midway and it`s fighters were the only new ships in games. There were either no more ships, or old ships from WC3/4, so I don`t really see what the problem is.
 
Pedro says:
SO why not give us someone with a little more experience?
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Well, perhaps they felt it would spoil the whole "new generation" idea
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Vondoom says:
Our most advanced bombers are a almost 20 year old design, and new fighters like the F-22 may not ever see the light of day because currently there is simply no use for them. You don't develop and spend massive resources on new weaponry when there is no need for them.
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Ah, but that's the whole point. There is a need. The old fleet is on the verge of a complete break-down. Maintenance costs are growing, and even then ships are grinding to a halt. It's no longer enough to repair them - they must be replaced. Granted, they could be replaced with new ships of the same class, but then Paladin steps in and says "When the Kilrathi started the war [...] we were unready [...] because we thought we cold count on a time of peace. The cost of our misjudgement was an unthinkable toll in lives and property. The Confederation owes it to itself [...] to never be so taken again."
In other words, they're spending money on getting the military back in shape and modernised not because there is a need, but because the need won't announce itself twenty years in advance. Although the above quote comes from right before WCP, I'm sure there were people saying that back in '73. Which is quite fortunate - imagine fighting off the Nephilem flying junk like the Longbow, Hellcat, and Thunderbolt.
But yes, at the end of the day it comes down to Origin wanting new ships in the game
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Quarto: I must protest. The Longbow and the Thunderbolt are NOT junk. They carried their own weight in the war against the Kilrathi and rubbishing them just because they're old simply is not fair. Suppose the Nephilem showed up right after Blair T Bombed Kilrah? You wouldn't be calling them junk in that context.
 
I must protest. The Longbow and the Thunderbolt are NOT junk. They carried their own weight in the war against the Kilrathi and rubbishing them just because they're old...
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Is standard procedure these days. As you were, Lieutenant.

Sorry, couldn't resist that, since your words reminded me so much of something Hobbes said in WC2
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Anyway, I think I still would be calling them junk. I never found either craft particularly impressive. That's just my opinion, and admittedly on paper they seem to be an adequate match for their contemporaries, but... <shrug>
 
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I didn`t particularly like them either during WC3. The Longbow was o.k, but I never liked the thunderbolt much, and hardly ever used it.

BTW, check your email, Quarto.
 
"Well, perhaps they felt it would spoil the whole "new generation" idea ."

Nothing wrong with spoiling a bad idea
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Vondoom said:
First of all, Fusion requires only 10,000,000K or so, not 100,000,000. I know, I know, being nitpicky and all. But a M/AM engine would require far less fuel than a Fusion engine but neither need much space for fuel if they are efficent. The main problem lies in effective containment and directment of that energy, which for either plant is considerable.
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I don't consider it nitpicking. I am an enthusiast of technology and physics, not to say I actually know anthing, but I find the discussion very interesting.

I thought the figure I used was a little high, as I think I have seen 10,000,000K before as you said, but I pulled 100,000,000 of of a fusion FAQ at Princeton Plasma Physics Labratory. However, whichever one of the temps is right, it is for D-T fusion. I would think WC (as any sci-fi universe should as economical D-T fusion probably is only a few decades away) would use a form of fusion that was anuetronic, so the actual temp needed would be significantly higher.

As for M/AM reactions, I haven't seen much of info, so all I can really do is speculate to the best of my knowledge. From what I have heard, the magnetic confinement problems of a plasma at extremely high temps would be significantly tougher than just coliding a stream of protons and antiprotons. With fusion, you have to maintain the temp, keep it tightly confined, keep adding more matter, and screen the fused matter out.

With M/AM, after you have the ability to safetly contain a sizeable portion of AM, then isn't it just a matter of sending it into a matter stream? You still have to worry about containment, but you shouldn't have to worry about the mixture being as hot and energetic as the plasma for fusion, right? You could, of course, make the M/AM mix much more energetic since it is so effiecient, but if you are limmiting the reaction so that it produces the same amount of power as given fusion reaction, wouldn't the M/AM reaction be less energetic then that given fusion reaction, since you don't have to make any efforts to hold the temp in to maintain fusion?

Anybody have any good info here? I am sure I am very misguided, but I don't have any decent info, so I chalk it all up to ignorance, the fact I can't read, and my many learning disabilities.
 
We were both right about the temps. For standard fusion (D-T, or even in a star) only 10,000,000K is needed. About the M/AM I am not sure how much energy is needed to contain it. What I do know is that no one has any idea how to create enough AM cheaply enough to make it worthwhile.

Also posting this using BeOS, its a pretty slick OS and totally free. Sorta like an easier to use Linux. I recommend checking it out.

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There is no God but myself. No destiny but what I deem for me. I walk my path and no others, for I am free.

http://www.ntr.net/~vondoom
 
Vondoom said:
For standard fusion (D-T, or even in a star) only 10,000,000K is needed.
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Actually, the sun doesn't have any deuterium any more (although stars do use it early in their lives). If it did, life on Earth wouldn't exist because of the neutron bombardment. The sun uses normal hydrogen in a cycle catalyzed by carbon that is not very direct. There is even a little AM involved as positrons are formed in the carbon cycle.
 
Um, I know this isn't too important, but if people were wondering why the sudden change of ships for WCP (remember WC3 era ships in SO), ever wonder why the Rapier was still in service after 10 years in WC2, and yet all the fighters were different in WC3? Yes I know it's cos of the new gfx system, but from this 'historic' view, there's very little time between WC2 and WC3. Also, why still use Hellcats and Longbows in WC4? I understand that they were probably the best choice to keep the number of ships flown while Blair was with Confed to a minimum, and that there didn't seem to be much urgency after the Kilrathi War, but it would be nice to see the odd Excalibur. Hmmm, the Bearcat didn't seem that much of an improvement over the Excalibur, and I don't have either WC3 or WC4 to replay (that really sux).
 
Quarto said:
Is standard procedure these days. As you were, Lieutenant.

Sorry, couldn't resist that, since your words reminded me so much of something Hobbes said in WC2
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Umm, how? And wasn't it Tolwyn to Paladin, not Hobbes? Uhh, just curious.
 
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It was Hobbes, Blair and Tolwyn. Here's the conversation...

Tolwyn: And finally, Ralgha, if you won't acceptmy recommendation that you select another wingman... ...then I urge you to watch your back. Maverick certainly won't.
Hobbes: Admiral, I must disagree To question Maverick's courage...
Tolwyn: Is standard procedure these days, Ralgha.
 
Yay, I got something right!
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If I'm locked on, there's no such thing as evasive action!
 
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I remember that mission. Stupid Hobbes! Ran away in the first pass. The FIRST pass
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I don't think he even fired his guns once. Then after painstakingly toasting all of the furballs I get back to the Concordia and Sparks tells me Hobbes gets all the credit
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That no good piece of fur!! A useless wingman in WC2 and a traitor in WC3. He never catches a break does he?
OK. Recovering from my little rant I do admit that he believed in Blair from the first onset for the noblest of reasons and he was a decent wingman in WC3. Sucks how he was always, wittingly or unwittingly, Thrakhath's pawn. Just another reason to put that kitty 6 feet under.

[This message has been edited by Penguin (edited October 05, 2000).]
 
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