The Alien wormholes

[steampunk]

Well I suppose I'm not taking into account that we're talking about a game here so real physics doesn't quite apply. I never seen anyone bring hypercubes into these sort of discussions before

Chernikov's the first!

Quarto: Well you have a black hole which takes things in. If you keep going in you get to singularity yes? Well theoretiacally you can extend a black hole past the singularity and you get a white hole. It does exactly the opposite of what a black hole does, theoretically of course. So it spits things out instead of taking them in, puts things back together instead of ripping them apart.

------------------
Mess with the best, die like the rest.

 

[Quarto]

Well I suppose I'm not taking into account that we're talking about a game here so real physics doesn't quite apply.

Au contraire (sp?). Since 'jumping' is a real life theory, real physics certainly do apply. And considering that light speed is pretty much out of the question, this theory had better work, or else we'll be stuck in Sol permanently.

As for the white holes... hmm... well, I can see why that's only a theory

. But then, given the physicists' preoccupation with everything having an opposite, I guess it's possible. Anyway, if WC wormholes used black/white holes, then jump points would only work one way. I think the theory is that any point can have a link to another point, provided that it has enough gravitational force to pull this off... naturally, black holes do this particularly well

.

 

[Chernikov]

Quarto: the multiple destinations was in reply to the original poster's reference to a Stargate type jump gate.

In retrospect, black holes as a point to point movement might work, but it would be difficult. Think of it like the jump nodes, where the surfaces are bent in towards each other, except in this case the disturbance is so big they are bent completely together (REALLY big black hole), forming a pathway. Visual, it would look like a couple of flat planes with a tunnel connecting them, and the point where the tunnel meets the planes being smooth and rounded (representing the gravitic disturbance in realspace). In the mouth of each of these tunnels would be a singularity (black/white hole) with a sphere representing the area where you're screwed if you get that close to the singularity. The major trick: aiming whatever goes through in such a manner that it stays away from the boundaries of the tunnel and misses BOTH the spheres at the same time. Pretty tough considering you cant see the "out" end of the tunnel... If you miss and hit the black hole, you dont come out at all. Miss and hit the sides of the tunnel, you come out in REALLY small pieces. Miss and hit the white hole, best guess is that you are TOTALLY annihlated and there isnt even a memory of you left. Fun, isnt it? You wouldnt need a jump drive, but a bit of heavy-duty shielding might be in order.

 

[Black Joker]

I think time for travel *between two jump- points* i.e in 'hyperspace' is very-very small. *In hyperspace* the ships in WCUniverse cannot navigate, and even fight like in Babylon5 universe. Othervise that thing have to be described in more than one game and novel.
You enter at one side of jump and simultaneously You exit from other side.

-------
Sorry for my poor english.

------------------
Mikhail "Black Joker" Babloyan

Wing Commander in Russia

 

[Quarto]

Black Joker: I must disagree. First of all, all evidence points to the fact that it is not instantaneous. Secondly, there is no proof whatsoever that combat is impossible in a wormhole - the lack of such combat can generally be explained by the utter stupidity of it - tunnels are safe enough if you're just jumping, but if you were to try to manoeuvre inside, you might just smack into the wall... and I have no idea what would happen them, but I imagine it's not pretty

. And finally, since jumping is faster (though it's not instant) than normal travel, you pretty much can't catch up with someone until you reach the other side.

 

[steampunk]

Hey what about negative energy? There's an article about it in Scientific American Jan 2000 issue.

Anyway it says that a wormhole might be traversable if the "corridor" of the hole has negative energy. Aparently negative energy is gravatationally repulsive and this prevents the wormhole from collapsing. Also for a wormhole to be travesable it must at least allow light rays to go through. For this to happen, they must start diverging somewhere in the middle. This again requires negative energy.

Do I understand how you get negative energy? Nope. But it solves a lot of problems.


------------------
Mess with the best, die like the rest.

 

[Quarto]

Negative energy... Scientific American... <mumbles to himself a bit>
Anyway, whatever

.

Why is it so quiet, btw? It seems like there's only two or three threads that are getting any posts. How very unusual.

 

[snuzzleduck]

One thing I've noticed people saying is that the alien wormhole tech is limited as to where they can make the exit because of the fact that they jumped into the Kilrah system instead of Sol. It seems pretty obvious that when they came, they were looking for the Kilrathi, but happened to find us as an extra added bonus.

 

[Quarto]

Yes, they were looking for the Kilrathi. But their technology *is* limited (as far as we know). Had this not been the case, then SO would have taken place in Sol

. Note that the Nephilem gateway in Kilrah was built over an already-existing anomaly (although the anomaly was too weak to be opened or detected by normal means), and the second gateway was being built at Proxima where the accretion device was capable of supplying essentially infinite power from the two stars. Which tells you a lot about the amounts of energy involved in creating a new anomaly...

 

[snuzzleduck]

i don't see why you are saying that the wormhole they created in kilrah was over an already existing anomaly. theres no mention of that anywhere in the game. it seems to me more likely that the bugs can build a wormhole anywhere they want, but the amount of energy required to do so is pretty hefty.

And if i were the bugs, i probably wouldn't build one directly in the sol system. theres only so much room for ships to come out, so you have to send larger ships through on more of a one-at-a-time approach. if confed got a big enough force together, they could just sit and pluck off bug ships as they came through. i would go for building the gate someplace where it wouldn't be found, then gather a large attack group and head on in to enemy territory.

 

[Knight]

You must remember something. A wormhole or a jump point, either one, is a tear in the space/time continuum. Just because it seems like it takes a few seconds, doesn't mean that it does. You could be inside the tunnel for up to a minute, but when you come out, no time will have passed. Now, it could be the opposite, and Lost In Space is a perfect example. They were in hyperspace for what seemed to them to be only a few seconds, (even though they couldn't move while they were in it) and yet they came out some 20-30 years into the future, in the middle of nowhere. IMHO, the only way we're ever going to find out if any of this is real, is if the governments of the world unite (fat chance) and form a Confederation of sorts. Hey, it could happen. Will it? Probably not.

------------------
HTML Assistant: WC Space Command
Administrator: UBW 5th Fleet
Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Jonny2284]

In Lost in Space it was the time anomalae or whatever that sent them 20-30 years into the future, when they left the anomali they were back in their normal time and when they reentered it and sent them back in the future. One thing is this anything to do with my original question anymore
Yah or Nay?

Jonny

 

[Chernikov]

To form a Confederation first we need an evil, dictatorial, xenophobic Federation for it to be born from, do we not? just a thought...

Negative Energy... seems that with any type of distortion, unless something subsequently kept them on the same path, light rays would start diffracting on their own. No negative energy needed. And any such negative energy would have to be provided by the ship, seeing as if it wasnt the wormhole would stay open on it's own. Interesting concept though, but negative in relation to WHAT?

I think it was the manual that mentioned something about a "previously unknown instability" or something along those lines... or maybe the SO fic. whatever.

maybe we need a new thread to continue why the bugs didnt jump straight into Sol if they could. "bug tactics - or lack therof" Big Grin (I refuse to use the Poke-CRAP)

------------------
I don't respect your authority BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE!!!

 

[steampunk]

Chernikov: In relation to 0 energy. In any area of space at any time there is usually positive energy, ie there's something in that bit of space, or that space can be completely empty with absolutely no energy occupying it. But apparently it's possible to have less than no energy in a bit of space by increasing the total energy somewhere else. ie there'd be less than nothing in one place and somewhere else you'd have to have more than you started with. Since the negative bit and the extra bit sorta cancel out, it's ok.

More interesting, is that they've been able to carry out experiments concerning negative energy successfully.

------------------
Mess with the best, die like the rest.

 

[Chernikov]

OK, gotcha. Just never heard it referred to as negative energy before. I've thought of it as sort of an anti-energy, because negative would merely be determined by your point of view. The bugs could view negative energy as positive for all we know.

------------------
I don't respect your authority BECAUSE YOU HAVE NONE!!!

 

[Quarto]

Snuzzleduck: Go play WCP again

. The cutscene where Finley explains the Alien gateway to Casey. She says that it's over an existing anomaly.

As for jumping into Sol... well, by the time Confed would have realised what's up, there would be a Kraken or two... or five hundred... going at full speed towards Earth. Remember, there would probably be at least a half-hour delay between the opening of the gateway and the arrival of any Confed forces (and that's just scout fighters) on the scene. A half an hour, assuming the bugs knew what they were doing (and we know they do) would be enough for at least 30 capital ships - that's _thousands_ of fighters.
And of course, if they could build a gateway to anywhere, then why not build two gateways? How would Sol system hold up against 60 capital ships and 6000+ fighters (which assumes 100 fighters per ship - a very conservative figure)? It wouldn't.
Therefore, we can safely conclude that the bugs cannot just build any old gateway anywhere anytime.

Knight: To form a Confederation, we'd have to do something about the US first.
Well... either that, or we'd have to have WWIII so that everybody is shocked into agreeing to the creation of a real UN.

[This message has been edited by Quarto (edited March 27, 2000).]

 

[Knight]

Quarto has the right idea there, not with the WWIII part. They can't build one anywhere. Look at where they've built them before. In Kilrah, over an existing anonomaly, in Proxima, where they had two suns to power the thing, since it probably wasn't the same case as Kilrah. If I were the Confed tactical division, I'd be scouting backwater systems, and those that have available power (such as binary systems).

------------------
HTML Assistant: WC Space Command
Administrator: UBW 5th Fleet
Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Erm, with all due respect, that's a lot of pure speculation. In the several weeks of open-gate in Wing Commander Prophecy we did not encounter that many carriers.

Plus, after the Battle of Terra the Earth Defense Fleet was formed -- armed with the newest ships in the fleet.

------------------
Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG

Bombardez les Ptitard!

 

[Anagram]

Erm, with all due respect, that's a lot of pure speculation. In the several weeks of open-gate in Wing Commander Prophecy we did not encounter that many carriers.

That's why I believe that those carriers we fought had been travelling for some time. They toasted the Cats, and started production of a wormhole (device), to get reinforcements...

I know it sounds odd and everything, but their "massive" force seemed rather expeditionary (or diversionary for the real gate at Proxima).

------------------
Maestro: "Lighten up Spyder! We're not gonna die! We're gonna WIN!!"

Zero: "Hey, Maestro... Uhh... If you DIE, can we riffle through your stuff before we head back to Sol?"

Maestro: "You can burn in Hell."

 

[Quarto]

LOAF: Well, of course it's speculation

. We've got no information whatsoever on the real size and capabilities of the Nephilem fleet.

Anagram: No, it was definitely massive

. There were several carriers, plenty of destroyers, and a few cruisers to boot... not to forget the two Kraken, of course

. If that had been a diversion... then the Confederation might as well surrender. Not even the likes of Casey will save them now

.