Any Privateer Trade games ONLINE??
- Thread starter Malfus
- Start date
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
There is a crappy game that some people seem to like that is about flying ships and trading.
http://www.diaspora.com
My opinion is it's terrible, but I guess people like it.
http://www.diaspora.com
My opinion is it's terrible, but I guess people like it.
There are a few promising ones, the best at the moment being Jumpgate. You can read about it at jumpgate.netdevil.com.
Star Wars Galaxies is also going to head down that road, though it's a goodly ways off, a year and a half or so.
If you like MUDs there are a couple out there, some Star Wars based, some not. Back in the old days when I used AOL without knowing any better, I played one called Federation, which was kinda fun. Unfortunately they started charging for it and I wasn't about to pay money for text. But I have yet to see any WC MUDs.
Star Wars Galaxies is also going to head down that road, though it's a goodly ways off, a year and a half or so.
If you like MUDs there are a couple out there, some Star Wars based, some not. Back in the old days when I used AOL without knowing any better, I played one called Federation, which was kinda fun. Unfortunately they started charging for it and I wasn't about to pay money for text. But I have yet to see any WC MUDs.
NO offence, whilst im sure this project is very good i have a few questions
1. Dont take this the wrong way but how does someone who seems to be fluent in programming language to be ABLE to create a game have trouble creating a website?
2. Do you have authorisation to use the copyright from the wingcommander games? I mean i know u can say its a FREE project or not use EXACT graphics but the point is that whilst the ideas might not be COPIED from the game exactly, there are issues of plaguerism (sp?) surrounding the use of multiple instances from the same source
ie. Whilst i could create a story much similar to WC universe with Jump Points, Nav Points, an enemy bent on destroying human kind, i could easily get away with posing this as an original idea because its concept is non unqiue BUT however if i decided to NAME my ships LionClaw, and call my enemy the Mil'rathi, a dog like people... well you see my point, if i did this all ORIGIN would need to do is prove that there are ENOUGH similarities with this project as with their original COPYRIGHTED ideas and they would have a case of PLAGERUISM!!
Now, i dont think they will care too much if it is not making any money and seeing as the WING COMMANDER games are pretty much dead in the eyes of CONSUMER GAMES MARKETS but that is THEIR choice.... even if it makes NO MONEY they can still sue your ass off...
And techincaly, even if u only make 1cent per day from a banner on the front of your webpage..... that belongs to them if they win a case!!
Im a writer so i know all about Serial Rights and Copyright and all that.... So im just asking if you have thought this through because whilst u might plan it as an underground project, as soon as ANYONE who plays it has a COPY of what you have wether in PAPER or DATA format... THEY are liable to the same charges of perpectuating the theft of the WING COMMANDER idea
Now, if it isnt that big, like 50 ppl playing i wouldnt worry but the second it gets big enough to notice, WORRY!!
Best idea i can suggest is to COMPLETELY distance the WING COMMANDER idea and model the concept on a NEW UNIVERSE.. Same basic concept, ships, jump points, trade etc but dont include ANYTHING to do with wing commander
Whilst it might sound like im TRYING to find fault, i have seen MANY fan based things like this simply get shutdown by a word from the big boys
ANyone ever hear of STAR TREK: Dark Frontier?
It was a PBeM game that basicaly had u a member of a crew on a war fleet fighting a huge war, the starfleet was now full of the Fighter/Corvette/Frigate/Destoryer/Carrier ship ideas and u could play either side of the war
It was all good when 50 ppl were playing for nothing, but then it caught on.... I was a member of one of these crews and then i remember hearing that the MODERATORS for the game had made a choice, either pull out or start charging for their time and paying for the server space they used
God knows how many ppl were playing at this point but whilst they may have lost a lot of people (including me!) they carried on and charged 5$ a month to play!!
They even had Banners and sponsers as well, they moved to a dedicated server and the game soon went from text based EMAILS to webbased Turns and very well faluted graphics [all stolen from STAR TREK]
Ok, i do have a point and im getting to it
Not soon after they started charging, the Moderators [old friends of mine] got a letter, not an email, a LETTER to his house stating in legal jargin that the game infringed upon Paramount's STAR TREK empire and they had to shut down the game and i think there was even a point about reimbursing the company for the money that they charged people!
This shit up my friend and the game shutdown and my friend who quit his job to run the game was unemployed and facing possible problems with GIVING over the money he and the other mods earnt from the game
Luckily for him, last time i spoke to him, they dropped any issue about the money [proving what was earnt and detailing it etc would have cost them more money than what was earnt through the game!!] and let the issue go
There was talk about a division of Paramounts Gaming Connections [enter game development company that produces most of Star Trek licensced titles] making the game a ONLINE game similar to ULTIMA ONLINE fame, ppl buy a box, subscribe and play online!!
That never went ahead, but the point behind this is that whilst u might only be a fly on the arm of CORPORATE giants like EA, the second u put the title WINGCOMMANDER UNIVERSE into ur game or start using NEW CONSTANTINOPLE and PERRY NAVAL BASE then your looking to get swatted by a VERY big FLYswatter!!!
[Edited by Malfus on 06-20-2001 at 18:12]
1. Dont take this the wrong way but how does someone who seems to be fluent in programming language to be ABLE to create a game have trouble creating a website?
2. Do you have authorisation to use the copyright from the wingcommander games? I mean i know u can say its a FREE project or not use EXACT graphics but the point is that whilst the ideas might not be COPIED from the game exactly, there are issues of plaguerism (sp?) surrounding the use of multiple instances from the same source
ie. Whilst i could create a story much similar to WC universe with Jump Points, Nav Points, an enemy bent on destroying human kind, i could easily get away with posing this as an original idea because its concept is non unqiue BUT however if i decided to NAME my ships LionClaw, and call my enemy the Mil'rathi, a dog like people... well you see my point, if i did this all ORIGIN would need to do is prove that there are ENOUGH similarities with this project as with their original COPYRIGHTED ideas and they would have a case of PLAGERUISM!!
Now, i dont think they will care too much if it is not making any money and seeing as the WING COMMANDER games are pretty much dead in the eyes of CONSUMER GAMES MARKETS but that is THEIR choice.... even if it makes NO MONEY they can still sue your ass off...
And techincaly, even if u only make 1cent per day from a banner on the front of your webpage..... that belongs to them if they win a case!!
Im a writer so i know all about Serial Rights and Copyright and all that.... So im just asking if you have thought this through because whilst u might plan it as an underground project, as soon as ANYONE who plays it has a COPY of what you have wether in PAPER or DATA format... THEY are liable to the same charges of perpectuating the theft of the WING COMMANDER idea
Now, if it isnt that big, like 50 ppl playing i wouldnt worry but the second it gets big enough to notice, WORRY!!
Best idea i can suggest is to COMPLETELY distance the WING COMMANDER idea and model the concept on a NEW UNIVERSE.. Same basic concept, ships, jump points, trade etc but dont include ANYTHING to do with wing commander
Whilst it might sound like im TRYING to find fault, i have seen MANY fan based things like this simply get shutdown by a word from the big boys
ANyone ever hear of STAR TREK: Dark Frontier?
It was a PBeM game that basicaly had u a member of a crew on a war fleet fighting a huge war, the starfleet was now full of the Fighter/Corvette/Frigate/Destoryer/Carrier ship ideas and u could play either side of the war
It was all good when 50 ppl were playing for nothing, but then it caught on.... I was a member of one of these crews and then i remember hearing that the MODERATORS for the game had made a choice, either pull out or start charging for their time and paying for the server space they used
God knows how many ppl were playing at this point but whilst they may have lost a lot of people (including me!) they carried on and charged 5$ a month to play!!
They even had Banners and sponsers as well, they moved to a dedicated server and the game soon went from text based EMAILS to webbased Turns and very well faluted graphics [all stolen from STAR TREK]
Ok, i do have a point and im getting to it
Not soon after they started charging, the Moderators [old friends of mine] got a letter, not an email, a LETTER to his house stating in legal jargin that the game infringed upon Paramount's STAR TREK empire and they had to shut down the game and i think there was even a point about reimbursing the company for the money that they charged people!
This shit up my friend and the game shutdown and my friend who quit his job to run the game was unemployed and facing possible problems with GIVING over the money he and the other mods earnt from the game
Luckily for him, last time i spoke to him, they dropped any issue about the money [proving what was earnt and detailing it etc would have cost them more money than what was earnt through the game!!] and let the issue go
There was talk about a division of Paramounts Gaming Connections [enter game development company that produces most of Star Trek licensced titles] making the game a ONLINE game similar to ULTIMA ONLINE fame, ppl buy a box, subscribe and play online!!
That never went ahead, but the point behind this is that whilst u might only be a fly on the arm of CORPORATE giants like EA, the second u put the title WINGCOMMANDER UNIVERSE into ur game or start using NEW CONSTANTINOPLE and PERRY NAVAL BASE then your looking to get swatted by a VERY big FLYswatter!!!
[Edited by Malfus on 06-20-2001 at 18:12]
Firstly, I don't program HellcatV does, he's making the game, I'm just the idea's guy.
Secondly, I have to agree, I wish that EA would let us have our online game with their title, if I could, any profit we made would go straight to them, I don't care whether I get sued, I don't care if it meant I didn't get a cent, it'd be nice.. but I would rather see a WC online game than anything else, if any company wants to sue a small group of people for making a mod they aren't even charging for, then SCREW THEM!!!! most of the big companies like EA could Easily put in a tiny bit of effort to make WCUniverse an official game, and then sell it to make millions. I think that if companies are to stupid to assimilate instead of sue then the real people who need to be persecuted are the big companies.
Secondly, I have to agree, I wish that EA would let us have our online game with their title, if I could, any profit we made would go straight to them, I don't care whether I get sued, I don't care if it meant I didn't get a cent, it'd be nice.. but I would rather see a WC online game than anything else, if any company wants to sue a small group of people for making a mod they aren't even charging for, then SCREW THEM!!!! most of the big companies like EA could Easily put in a tiny bit of effort to make WCUniverse an official game, and then sell it to make millions. I think that if companies are to stupid to assimilate instead of sue then the real people who need to be persecuted are the big companies.
Yes, i agree Privateer online would have been cool...
But a BIG company like ORIGIN arent gonna make the same mistake they did with UO2!
Spend MILLIONS on a project only to realise it has no long term feasbility and axe it
We want PRIvatEER online but were not gonna get it. It would rok, imagine it... you could own ur own ship, customizable in about 50000 different ways, you can invest in planeatry economics or politics etc etc
Whilst i wish you all the luck with this, sadly saying you dont care about copyright infringment is naieve because the way COPYRIGHT law is at the momment, anyone can sue anyone with limited baseless eveidence
Are you aware that DISCLAIMERS like you see on movies saying "this doesnt corespond with real life, any people in this movie having similarities with people in real life is purely conicendencee"
That shit doesnt matter, if i watch a new UNIVERSAL picture with a dumb guy playing computer games all day and wasting his life away in his little house going nowhere with his life........ i can sue them
I dont need to prove it to a jury ... i just need to sue them and IF the judging party looks and can see a SHRED of similarities between me and this movie then I WIN
Same thing with Screenplays, if u send in a screenplay to a tv company, they refuse it and u dont get paid...... then 1 year down the line a TV show exactly like urs comes onto the scene, as long as you can prove that the TV people took ONE look at your SCreenplay then YOU WIN!!
very fucked up, but thats the way it is
At this momement now, i could create a PBeM for Privateer but it would lack the interaction of the ship meets ship
Best i could do would be to say on their turn sheet
Welcome to Hades, There are 4# ships in this system
1# Billy Bob
2# Franky Joe
3# Joey Bloggs
4# Oscar floska
[include details of them and their ships etc]
They could then attack, exchange pleasentries or follow them
But it lacks the REAL TIME ELEMENT
But a BIG company like ORIGIN arent gonna make the same mistake they did with UO2!
Spend MILLIONS on a project only to realise it has no long term feasbility and axe it
We want PRIvatEER online but were not gonna get it. It would rok, imagine it... you could own ur own ship, customizable in about 50000 different ways, you can invest in planeatry economics or politics etc etc
Whilst i wish you all the luck with this, sadly saying you dont care about copyright infringment is naieve because the way COPYRIGHT law is at the momment, anyone can sue anyone with limited baseless eveidence
Are you aware that DISCLAIMERS like you see on movies saying "this doesnt corespond with real life, any people in this movie having similarities with people in real life is purely conicendencee"
That shit doesnt matter, if i watch a new UNIVERSAL picture with a dumb guy playing computer games all day and wasting his life away in his little house going nowhere with his life........ i can sue them
I dont need to prove it to a jury ... i just need to sue them and IF the judging party looks and can see a SHRED of similarities between me and this movie then I WIN
Same thing with Screenplays, if u send in a screenplay to a tv company, they refuse it and u dont get paid...... then 1 year down the line a TV show exactly like urs comes onto the scene, as long as you can prove that the TV people took ONE look at your SCreenplay then YOU WIN!!
very fucked up, but thats the way it is
At this momement now, i could create a PBeM for Privateer but it would lack the interaction of the ship meets ship
Best i could do would be to say on their turn sheet
Welcome to Hades, There are 4# ships in this system
1# Billy Bob
2# Franky Joe
3# Joey Bloggs
4# Oscar floska
[include details of them and their ships etc]
They could then attack, exchange pleasentries or follow them
But it lacks the REAL TIME ELEMENT
well then why don't we just see what EA has to say on the matter? we could release it very cheaply, I mean come on guys, how much has EA paid for it so far? nothing? we could make a deal with EA whereby any sales we make, a large portion goes to EA then, they get money for their copyright we get our game, everyone is happy,if the game is a flop they don't lose much if any money, because the fans made the game.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
That's a very bad example
. You'd have to actually prove that the character is based on you - which is quite impossible, unless you're a very unique individual. Otherwise, it IS purely coincidence.And Darkmage, I don't think you need to worry about releasing the game until the game actually exists.
1. EA wont put their name on something that is made by fans because it will harm their crediibilty.... and when u weigh the POSIBILITY of making money on a product against a company like EA getting a bad cred' then u know which one they will pick
2. You dont have to prove without a doubt that you are depicted in a story that has been published. You just have to prove that there is reasonable belief in it
i know, its fucked up but its true. If i wrote a story with a character based on someone and THAT character was offensive to said person..... even if the name is different and there is no actual ties to this person, THEY can still sue me. Trust me, when it comes to libel, it isnt the SUEING PLANTIFF that needs to prove the guilt it is the DEFENDANT who needs to prove his innocence
Until that changes, copyright and libel cases will always fuck up the jsutice system
2. You dont have to prove without a doubt that you are depicted in a story that has been published. You just have to prove that there is reasonable belief in it
i know, its fucked up but its true. If i wrote a story with a character based on someone and THAT character was offensive to said person..... even if the name is different and there is no actual ties to this person, THEY can still sue me. Trust me, when it comes to libel, it isnt the SUEING PLANTIFF that needs to prove the guilt it is the DEFENDANT who needs to prove his innocence
Until that changes, copyright and libel cases will always fuck up the jsutice system
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
The example you gave, however, is thoroughly unreasonable
. Well of course they could sue you then - this is the very definition of slander. Even then, though, they would have to prove that this lowers their standing in the eyes of the 'reasonable' public. And even then, you're fine if you can prove that it's true. Nothing fucked up about it at all - these laws make sense.
...But of course, that's libel, which is very different from copyright infringement.
I'll agree, EA is going to drop Wing Commander unless another flight sim does pretty damn well, which doesn't seem to be going well. However, if Freelancer comes out as planned (even if they push it back, again, and again, and again....) But if it ever does come out, and can hold up to the rigerous processes of online play (with a company like Microsoft funding you, I think you have the cash to throw at it being able to) then that will either be A) A great idea once the massive multiplayer system comes out, or B) The kick-start that makes EA being to rethink their WC possibilities.
However, that's only if Freelancer, or something similar, does well-which, if they came out with a GOOD online game, it would!
However, that's only if Freelancer, or something similar, does well-which, if they came out with a GOOD online game, it would!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I would be willing to bet that we peons will never really know the true story of what EA lost and gained with UO2... it's certainly more than we currently know.
WildWeasel
Spaceman
I can back Tye up on this one. Indeed, Jumpgate is a very promising game. Of course, my opinion is not entirely unbiased...
EA came up with a statement about 6 mnths back saying that they were focusing ALL of ORIGIN's money and resources, a total of 50million$+ on the project of UO2
Truth is, if they COULD feasibly have produced the game then they would have, no doubt about it
They realised that the project would not recoup the investment they were putting into it and to continue would be to throw money down the drain...
Truth is, if they COULD feasibly have produced the game then they would have, no doubt about it
They realised that the project would not recoup the investment they were putting into it and to continue would be to throw money down the drain...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I'm sure UO2 would have made money -- but not really, since it'd just steal from the existing subscriber base of UO.
Still, I'd be willing to bet that there was some far more political maneuvering in this particular situation...
Still, I'd be willing to bet that there was some far more political maneuvering in this particular situation...
That was a very stupid thing to say
"I am sure UO2 would have made money"
Ok, so your basicaly saying that your SURE that UO2 would have made ENOUGH money for the company to break even, recover their losses and turn a profit?
Now, since YOU are so sure about this and all the MANY bean counters working for EA and ORIGIN pulled the plug anyway you are basicaly saying that with all their training, experience and skill that THEIR decsion was flawed?
Ok, please THINK b4 u speak it will save u a lot of time from reading flames like this that someone as witless as u deserves
!!!!!!!!
"I am sure UO2 would have made money"
Ok, so your basicaly saying that your SURE that UO2 would have made ENOUGH money for the company to break even, recover their losses and turn a profit?
Now, since YOU are so sure about this and all the MANY bean counters working for EA and ORIGIN pulled the plug anyway you are basicaly saying that with all their training, experience and skill that THEIR decsion was flawed?
Ok, please THINK b4 u speak it will save u a lot of time from reading flames like this that someone as witless as u deserves
!!!!!!!!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I shall toy with my prey.
EA didn't suddenly wake up in the morning and decide that UO2 wouldn't be profitable. If they were going to realize that UO2 would simply take people away from UO, they could have done so without wasting millions of dollars and two years of development. People had been sobbing about this from the day the project was announced -- EA didn't care, and there was no reason for them to 'suddenly' change their minds.
So what happened? Something that doesn't have anything to do with money. Richard Garriott -- and don't laugh. Certainly, it can be written off as a big coincidence that UO2 was cancelled at the same exact moment as he was ready to announce Destination Games...
But look at what's happened *since* the whole mess of craziness -- RG has picked up nearly every UO team member anyone's ever heard of. These are people who were employed by Origin who chose to leave for whatever he's doing.
Thus, it's rather apparent that he's doing something that people will risk trading in their steady jobs for.
Electronic Arts *knew* this. By cancelling UO2 they escape all the negative press they'd have recieved if the entire UO2 team were to be hired away in such a fashion...
EA didn't suddenly wake up in the morning and decide that UO2 wouldn't be profitable. If they were going to realize that UO2 would simply take people away from UO, they could have done so without wasting millions of dollars and two years of development. People had been sobbing about this from the day the project was announced -- EA didn't care, and there was no reason for them to 'suddenly' change their minds.
So what happened? Something that doesn't have anything to do with money. Richard Garriott -- and don't laugh. Certainly, it can be written off as a big coincidence that UO2 was cancelled at the same exact moment as he was ready to announce Destination Games...
But look at what's happened *since* the whole mess of craziness -- RG has picked up nearly every UO team member anyone's ever heard of. These are people who were employed by Origin who chose to leave for whatever he's doing.
Thus, it's rather apparent that he's doing something that people will risk trading in their steady jobs for.
Electronic Arts *knew* this. By cancelling UO2 they escape all the negative press they'd have recieved if the entire UO2 team were to be hired away in such a fashion...