What is the Space Force?

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
Maybe you could clarify for us:

Firstly, where do you see evidence of a TCN Ship, with TCN used as the designator?

Secondly, where do you see evidence of a Naval Flight Group?

Thirdly, where do you see evidence of an army?

Don't post like everyone else, "IIRC in End Run..."

Give us a page number to back up your point.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
Well I stumbled across two interesting quotes. Went to reinstall WC3 on my system, and threw on Victory Streak too, just for the helluva it.

I was flipping through the history section and ran across two interesting notes:

First, "...on board TCN fleet ships..."

Second, "..TCN fighters..."

(These are just partial quotes, figured I'd only post the relevant text).

Now, the date attatched to that first quote is 2669.098, which means at that time in the war tehre were still TCN ships? And the date for the second is older, 2939.033.

So at that date, either the Space Forces hadn't been created yet, or there have always been Naval Fighters AND Space Forces fighters. One possible theory is that the TCN handles forces on smaller ships, like cruisers, and the Space Forces outfits the carriers. But, that's just a theory.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Where the hell is Loaf when you need him?

I was in Atlanta. But I'm back now.

Well two things, firstly, I don't think anyone who takes the Wing Commander movie seriously should be considered a Wing Commander fan,

You should be honored. I've been a 'Wing fan online for just longer than pretty much anyone here... and I've never, ever seen anyone say anything this stupid. That's right, good sir -- you've managed to out stupid an entire decade of internet use. You deserve a medal, a popsicle and a kick in the face.

(And no, I'm not saying this because I think the movie is excellent/great/good/poor/bad...)

and second, Sventlana died in the transport, seconds after it crashed. There is never any allusion in any Wing Commander novel that she died in anyway other then as a Marine. I don't know what books your reading, but they sure as hell aint' WC.

The novel he was reading was 'Wing Commander: False Colors', by William Forstchen and Andrew Keith. There is a scene in which Bondarevsky's inner dialogue refers to Svetlana 'dying in her cockpit'. It implies-but-does-not-state (which is exactly what the initial poster claimed) that she was a pilot and not a marine (interesting aside -- the original WCP press material also claimed that Dekker was a pilot and not a marine).

(But then, I suppose you don't think anyone who takes False Colors seriously should be considered a Wing Commander fan, though).

(Also, Wing Commanders 2, 4 and Prophecy are a bit iffy.)

More stupid issues that come up in this thread:

* Angel's comment in the Wing Commander movie that she's Blair's "Wing Commander" is not a claim that she commands the carrier's fighter wing (Halcyon does -- he appears in the novel, though the movie implies that Gerald may be the WC), nor is it a statement that she is his squadron commander (this comes from the WCP Guide and Pilgrim Stars)... it is simply more of the 'wing'/'element' confusion that has daunted the franchise since they decided that 'Element Commander' wouldn't look good on a game box. :)

* I have always found it interesting that people complain about the WC movie... which kills Bossman for, what, the fourth different way? We have him dying differently in Freedom Flight, the actual SM2 game and then again in Super Wing Commander. But everyone likes these products, so we happily remained ignorant...

* There are probably dozens of branches of the Confederation military. The 'big' ones that we see in WC are the Terran Confederation Space Navy, the Terran Confederation Marine Corps and the Terran Confederation Space Force. Fleet Action implies that there is a fourth 'major' service, the Terran Confederation Army. We occasionally see references to smaller branches, like a 'Medical Corps' (SM2) or any of half a dozen independent intelligence and counter-intelligence agencies. These forces are grouped together into a single organization -- Terran Confederation Combined Forces (war era, the big red sword logo) or the Terran Confederation Unified Space Command (post-war, WC4/P shoulder logos). As best we can tell, all of these organizations have always existed -- the only thing at issue is *why* carriers sometimes have TCSN flight wings and sometimes have TCSF flight wings.

Don't post like everyone else, "IIRC in End Run..."

Give us a page number to back up your point.

Dude -- chill. 9 out of 10 people here are *not* walking Wing Commander encyclopedias, and they do not have every source at the tip of their fingers. We can't fault someone for not knowing a page number from a novel they read years earlier.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Svetlana blows up the mines attached to the carriers in the Kilrah spacedock on page 245 if that helps, after her landing craft gets shot down two pages earlier. :p
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think anyone is claiming that that doesn't happen -- the issue is that there's a reference in False Colors which *seemingly* contradicts that.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
I don't think anyone is claiming that that doesn't happen -- the issue is that there's a reference in False Colors which *seemingly* contradicts that.

Eh, each one of the novels seems to contradict data from the last one in many cases, even when written by the same author (William R. Forstchen did both End Run and False Colors).

The whole "in a fighter like Svetlana" sentence comes across as a bit of a typo or grammar error anyways. It could've been more like "gone out in a fighter, and never come back like Svetlana". I'm leaning more towards this interpretation of the line about Travis, if only because it's pretty hard to screw up a story detail when you probably still have the manuscript handy. :D
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
False Colors was actually written by Keith, based on an outline by Forstchen... in 'real life' it's just an honest mistake -- Keith not being familiar with End Run.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
False Colors was actually written by Keith, based on an outline by Forstchen... in 'real life' it's just an honest mistake -- Keith not being familiar with End Run.

That was his last novel too, wasn't it? Andrew Keith's, that is. Pity - it was rather fun, even with the oddness about the whole Richards bit. :D
 

overmortal

Bearded Person
I'm glad, oddly enough, that Loaf has returned. Loaf, your wealth of information is valuable in situations like these. Especially ones where I'm right and someone else is wrong. Svetlana wasn't a pilot, which is the point I was tryig to make the whole bloody time.

And, Loaf, for the record, what was Angel's "Official" role on the Tiger's Claw, and how, and when, officially, did Bossman die? Or, did he pull another of those "Phantom Ejections" that our pilots seem so good at pulling, and escape to live out from under the eye of the war from then on? (I highly doubt that, btw)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I'm glad, oddly enough, that Loaf has returned. Loaf, your wealth of information is valuable in situations like these. Especially ones where I'm right and someone else is wrong. Svetlana wasn't a pilot, which is the point I was tryig to make the whole bloody time.

Thanks. I like me, too.

And, Loaf, for the record, what was Angel's "Official" role on the Tiger's Claw, and how, and when, officially, did Bossman die? Or, did he pull another of those "Phantom Ejections" that our pilots seem so good at pulling, and escape to live out from under the eye of the war from then on? (I highly doubt that, btw)

Well, the issue is that Bossman seems to have four deaths:

- Movie: Before Blair arrives on the 'Claw.
- Secret Missions 1.5: Bossman on Angel's wing, after/during 'Cairo 3'.
- Secret Missions 2: Bossman dies on Angel's wing, after/during 'Firekka 4'.
- Freedom Flight: Bossman dies on Angel's wing, one week after Ralgha defects.
(To note, in SM2, Firekka 4 is *before* Ralgha's defection).

The movie one is radically different, so we'll just say he survived that somehow -- he was rescued later, and Angel's letter in TCH is the "standard" 'he died painlessly' bit as-per End Run.

For the others, I created a 'Bossman Death Nexus' around Freedom Flight -- since Freedom Flight is the one that specifically sticks a date to the event (2655.278)... so I swapped Firekka 4 and Firekka 5 in my timeline of SM2, and then I based all further Secret Missions 1.5 dates as though they were concurrent with SM2 -- while Blair is off fighting the Kilrathi at Firekka, Armstrong is going on crazy secret missions for Halcyon.

As for Angel, she's a squadron commander -- but that bit of information comes from Pilgrim Stars and one of the old guides.
 
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