overmortal
Bearded Person
different. With an 'e' instead of an 'a'. Thanks for looking, though 
What is the Space Force?
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Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
I got some friends who speak Russian, I'll ask around and let you know what I find out.
overmortal said:
I'm a jackass with homemade opinions (I prefer having my own opinions, you see), but as a resident in a country real close to russia, I shall simply say this: It would probably sound FUBAR to you english-talking heads, especially the "R"-sound is unusual. I suspect that "-revsky" is more or less one syllable.
Jason_Ryock said:
You apologize too much. More power to ya!
Cashcleaner
Spaceman
My thoughts on the Terran Armed Forces - Unabridged!
The way it looks to me after looking at a few of the ship magazines and game books, the Terran Armed Forces are divided into three distinct commands
The Terran Confederation Marine Corps
The Terran Confederation Space Force
The Terran Confederaion Navy
With that said, I believe the creators intended the Space Force to be the primary space combat branch in regards to fighters, bombers, and shuttle craft. <b>This is actually the norm for military forces</b> around the world such as the Canadian Armed Forces and the British Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. Most militaries with a fleet and air assets will have dedicated air units attached to the fleet but still under Air Force/Air Command jurisdiction. For example, the Sea King Helicopters on Canadian naval warships are a part of the Maritime Air Support Group and under the command of the Air Forces Command. I'm not entirely sure, but I beleive the same applies to British Harriers on the Ark Royal, Illustrious, and Invincible. Those Harriers are not under the jurisdiction of the Navy, but rather the Royal Air Force.
Now, with that aknowledged, we must still understand that combat operations are jointly directed by the ship's command company AND the flight company. For example, a ship's captain may scramble an alarm to engage a group of incoming enemy fighters, but the chief flight officer would be placed in charge of more tactical matters such as squadron rotations, weapon loadouts, flight patrol paths, and other logistical affairs.
Now, as to why Blair became a Commodore in Prophesy and why Tolwyn flew fighters in Action Stations, I would put it down to plain old writer's error (Hey it does happen!).
Hope that sorts things out!
The way it looks to me after looking at a few of the ship magazines and game books, the Terran Armed Forces are divided into three distinct commands
The Terran Confederation Marine Corps
The Terran Confederation Space Force
The Terran Confederaion Navy
With that said, I believe the creators intended the Space Force to be the primary space combat branch in regards to fighters, bombers, and shuttle craft. <b>This is actually the norm for military forces</b> around the world such as the Canadian Armed Forces and the British Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. Most militaries with a fleet and air assets will have dedicated air units attached to the fleet but still under Air Force/Air Command jurisdiction. For example, the Sea King Helicopters on Canadian naval warships are a part of the Maritime Air Support Group and under the command of the Air Forces Command. I'm not entirely sure, but I beleive the same applies to British Harriers on the Ark Royal, Illustrious, and Invincible. Those Harriers are not under the jurisdiction of the Navy, but rather the Royal Air Force.
Now, with that aknowledged, we must still understand that combat operations are jointly directed by the ship's command company AND the flight company. For example, a ship's captain may scramble an alarm to engage a group of incoming enemy fighters, but the chief flight officer would be placed in charge of more tactical matters such as squadron rotations, weapon loadouts, flight patrol paths, and other logistical affairs.
Now, as to why Blair became a Commodore in Prophesy and why Tolwyn flew fighters in Action Stations, I would put it down to plain old writer's error (Hey it does happen!).
Hope that sorts things out!
overmortal
Bearded Person
I rarely chalk anything up to an error from the author, except for cases where it's completely black and white. End Run says that Svetlana is/was a marine. End Run tags her as a pilot (or, if nothing else, suggests it strongly . . I don't quite remember). Oops. WC2 says that Ralga was called "Hobbes" by Downtown because DT thought Ralgha to be "very wise". The wc3 novelization, however, claims that Blair named Ralgha after a piece of ancient earth litterature (which we've debated on whether that's the writting of Hobbes the philosopher, or calvin and hobbes, the comic). Oops. The WC movie has Deveraux as the chic-in-charge on the Tigers Claw (or, Tiger Claw), but wc1 clearly shows that Angel is just another pilot, and Col. Halcyon is the man behind the wheel. . . . and also had Blair and Deveraux swapping spit roughly ten years too early. Another "oops" for our collection. But, changing from one rank (or branch) or ship to another, especially over a long period of time, isn't hard to compensate for when an opposite claim hasn't been made. If they'd said "Commodore Blair stayed with the Space Force forever", then we'd know that someone was snorting something, but, as the case currently rests, Blair had what . . ten years or so to switch branches. Hell, he might have even gotten married and divorced during that time. He might have children by that time. The game simply doesn't say. Apparently, Maniac was married twice (or so I've been told on this board) and it's a relatively unknown fact, unless you study the characters way more than I do. Even the argument of "I'm Maniac, Nice to meetcha" has been settled.
Logic, dear children, logic. (and, I realize that people have theories for the WCM inaccuracies, but I tend to find those a little far-fetched)
Logic, dear children, logic. (and, I realize that people have theories for the WCM inaccuracies, but I tend to find those a little far-fetched)
IIRC, Svetlana was washed out of the academy were she was training to be a pilot. She had to do something to fight the Kilrathi so she went into the Marines and became quite adept at coordinating gorund strikes from craft do to her experience behind the stick.overmortal said:
Can't argue with you on the Hobbes moniker point of origin.
Angel was the "wing" commander of her squadron, like the Killer Bees, Black Lions, etc of WC1, not the Wing Commander for the Tigers Claw, IIRC. As for their relationship before WC1, eh, who knows.overmortal said:
C-ya
overmortal
Bearded Person
The problem is that False Colors hints at Svetlana dying in a fighter. I don't think it outright says it, but, again, hints strongly.
Angel wasn't the co of any squadron in WC. Otherwise, you'd have been taking orders from her as opposed to giving them to her.
Personally, I don't regard the movie as canon, but, again, the whole subject has been debated into the ground numerous times. I don't particularly care to do it again
Angel wasn't the co of any squadron in WC. Otherwise, you'd have been taking orders from her as opposed to giving them to her.
Personally, I don't regard the movie as canon, but, again, the whole subject has been debated into the ground numerous times. I don't particularly care to do it again
Svetlana died in a Marine Transport in transit from the Kilrathi shipyards back to the Tarawa.
In the game, to allow you to be in command, Col. Halcyon makes you the 'flight' commander to give you the experience and allow the older pilots to rate your abilities.
Halcyon: . . . You rookies’ll be flying with experienced pilots on your first missions. I want the rookies to fly as wingleaders. You vets keep an eye on the kids out there. Here are the assignments. Maverick, you’re leading Alpha wing. Spirit will fly on your wing. She’s quiet, but she knows the ropes. You’re the wingleader, but if Spirit talks, you be sure and listen. Got it?
Otherwise, we would have spent half the game taking orders from someone instead of being the "Wing Commander".
C-ya
In the game, to allow you to be in command, Col. Halcyon makes you the 'flight' commander to give you the experience and allow the older pilots to rate your abilities.
Halcyon: . . . You rookies’ll be flying with experienced pilots on your first missions. I want the rookies to fly as wingleaders. You vets keep an eye on the kids out there. Here are the assignments. Maverick, you’re leading Alpha wing. Spirit will fly on your wing. She’s quiet, but she knows the ropes. You’re the wingleader, but if Spirit talks, you be sure and listen. Got it?
Otherwise, we would have spent half the game taking orders from someone instead of being the "Wing Commander".
C-ya
overmortal
Bearded Person
Svetlana died in the shipyard, because she detonated the demolition warheads and blew the whole place to bloody hell, including herself. Her transport crashed, but she survived that and detonated dems. She wasn't a pilot, didn't die in a fighter or transport, and I don't care if you flew with more experienced pilots or not, Angel would have been giving you directions once you got into the Rapier squadron. Also, bossman didn't die until Firekka. "Whoops"
But, one thing about the movie that I do agree with: Hunter was played by the correct person, and was rather kickass. They did good on that one.
But, one thing about the movie that I do agree with: Hunter was played by the correct person, and was rather kickass. They did good on that one.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
Well two things, firstly, I don't think anyone who takes the Wing Commander movie seriously should be considered a Wing Commander fan, and second, Sventlana died in the transport, seconds after it crashed. There is never any allusion in any Wing Commander novel that she died in anyway other then as a Marine. I don't know what books your reading, but they sure as hell aint' WC. If you go look at End Run again, you'll see that the transport crashes, and then she gets on the comm right after that and detonates the nukes. She dosen't leave the transport and race back to the nukes. It's probably a smart assumption that the nukes were ALWAYS going to be remotely detonated, all she did was key in the code to do it from where she was. IIRC, this was AFTER the Tarawa lost it's bridge (And it's CIC?) so their communications were probably out along with their sensors. We see evidence of this throughout the book. In addition to that you can't send a group of Marines in to do a job with manually detonated nukes. That means someone is going to die, bad for morale, and public relations.
Oh, well, I'll take it. I had a nap today so I'll spend the energy.overmortal said:
Um, you just said she died in her transport and you'd be right. She crash landed and then detonated the charges after Merritt gave the arming code to her. I'm pretty sure on a moon with no oxygen she'd be in the transport when she died.
By the time I fly with Angel, I believe I'm a Captain, so whos in charge doesn't really come into play. Plus you have Halcyon telling you that you will be the wing leader, she would be disobeying an order if she took over command. Anyway, whats the argument here? Your ARE in command of the missions, I don't think you can argue with that.
Your wingmen are ejection happy in WCATV, WC3 and WC4, so why couldn't have Bossman (just like Knight later in the movie) have ejected and not been picked up right away? Anyway, this is another point that can't be argued, since we see Bossman and Knight later in WC1 so apparently they couldn't have died (Just as Vance Richards couldn't have died in False Colors since he engineered Eisens defection in WC4, hes alive so apparently . . . um, he's not dead.
And to try and anticipate your next response. . . Eh, those explainations hold about as much water as any other expalination, including ignoring one source or another.
C-ya
overmortal
Bearded Person
In the movie, Bossman is dead before Blair arrives on the carrier. Blair hops up into Bossman's fighter and gets in a certain degree of trouble for it. That was the whole thing about "He never existed", which, honestly, was quite dumb. In the books, however, he dies on Angel's wing during the whole Firekka scenario. I haven't played those missions in for-bloody-ever, but, doesn't he also die in the game?
The nukes were placed in the shipyards on the moon over Kilrah. The transport crashed back onto that moon, and she remotely detonated the nukes, which killed her, since she was close enough to them to be caught in the blast. Sure, she was IN the transport when the nukes went off, but she didn't really die from the crash. That's why Jason didn't want her setting them off . . . the nuclear blast would vaporize her, which it did. I've read End Run five or six times, if not more, so I know how it goes. Go back and read it again.
The theory behind Vance Richards is that he faked his death aboard that ship in False Colors.
Where the hell is Loaf when you need him?
The nukes were placed in the shipyards on the moon over Kilrah. The transport crashed back onto that moon, and she remotely detonated the nukes, which killed her, since she was close enough to them to be caught in the blast. Sure, she was IN the transport when the nukes went off, but she didn't really die from the crash. That's why Jason didn't want her setting them off . . . the nuclear blast would vaporize her, which it did. I've read End Run five or six times, if not more, so I know how it goes. Go back and read it again.
The theory behind Vance Richards is that he faked his death aboard that ship in False Colors.
Where the hell is Loaf when you need him?
They assume he died before Blair came on board (just as the audience can assume Knight dies when his broadsword goes nova) but apparently both had to eject considering we see them later in WC1. If the TIgers Claw found a fighter beat to hell in space with no ejection pod, looked for said pod and couldn't find it, with the kilrathi's love of shooting down escape pods, and the pessimistic "they didn't exist" philosophy in play to guard against the pain, I'd say that Angel, who had feelings for Bossman (whom is the only one who says he's dead IIRC), would immediately assume he "never existed" to protect herself. He was apparently found later, as was Knight.overmortal said:
Alright, thanks for going into more detail than necessary to make no point whatsoever. ie she died in the transport (which you said didn't then did happen) after setting off the nukes. I don't have to read the novel again considering I said exactly what you did, but in about 3 less sentences. You originally said that End Run tags her as a pilot for one of your "oops points"(which no novel does), which it doesn't since she was washed out of the academy and joined the Marines. Who needs to read it again?overmortal said:
Yes, yes, he faked his death to stop Tolwyn from doing what he did in WC4 and it would have been made clear in another book if the author hadn;t passed away. As is though, you have to assume he somehow lived to engineer Eisens defection later. So you can subscribe to that theory but not the fact that Bossman and Knight ejected? Lets see, one situation, two pilots seem to be killed but in a later source are found to have survived. Another situation, a commander of a capship who can't eject as easily as a pilot is presumed killed but later is shown to have survived in another WC source down the road... hmmm, I'd think the pilots are the more likely to get out of their situations alive, wouldn;t you?overmortal said:
Oh, and you don't need LOAF to discuss something thats been beaten into the ground 1 or 2 dozen times before your bright shining personality graced this board.
C-ya
Cashcleaner
Spaceman
So how does the Confed military go then?
I mean, how many branches are there and what has jurisidiction over what?
I mean, disregard the movie completely (total piece of cack that it was) and look at the games and books. There is the Space Force AND a naval flight group. There is a Marine Corps AND Army (although that is understandable). Where are divisions made. I think the novels must surely have deviated from the original concept of Navy, Space Force, and Marines which you see in-game from WC1 to WC4.
Just trying to sort it out myself now. I mean I liked the books, but I like continuity better.
I mean, how many branches are there and what has jurisidiction over what?
I mean, disregard the movie completely (total piece of cack that it was) and look at the games and books. There is the Space Force AND a naval flight group. There is a Marine Corps AND Army (although that is understandable). Where are divisions made. I think the novels must surely have deviated from the original concept of Navy, Space Force, and Marines which you see in-game from WC1 to WC4.
Just trying to sort it out myself now. I mean I liked the books, but I like continuity better.