What is everyone's favourite fighter
- Thread starter Excalibur
- Start date
The missiles go some way to making up for the lack of good guns, but even the missile loadout on the Pirhana is pretty weak. Six missiles doesn't go very far at all, especially when compared to the Tigershark's load of eight missiles and a rocket pod, which is worth another 4 or so missiles in itself.
Best, Raptor
Zor Prime
That guy.
Originally posted by Raptor
While they last, yes.But in any mission apart from a basic patrol with a handfull of enemies, they're not enough. Even if you score a kill with each missile, you'll still be left with entire navpoints with only the guns. That's when you're in trouble.
Best, Raptor
AH!! But that is when it is the most fun!
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
But when they open fire with their guns on such a head-on, chances are high that they shoot your missiles down, at least that's what I experienced.
FrostyCOS1
Spaceman
Sorry Everyone, but my favorite fighter would have to be the Dragon. My reasons being:
Anyone who says it's guns are underpowered would be insane. I played WC4 through on Nightmare (after beating it on Ace, so I can't take full credit, save dogfighting), and I had no trouble hitting with fissions. When under fire (common on Nightmare when outnumbered), placing one powerful shot is more important than staying on tail and pounding away.
Manueverability is above average, and with autoslide you can perform manuevers far beyond anything the computer musters.
Most judgements I have seen are based on firepower. I am a fan of agility. The goal in dogfighting is not to kill your opponent first...simply stay alive longer than he does. Even if this means forsaking a kill to allow your wingman an easy shot on your tailer.
As I said with "Stay alive longer than he does" Endurence is key. U/L afterburn makes this much easier. It is easier to evade fire under afterburn than normal thrust.
The cloaking device I never really used, save for first-strike opprotunity...then move to traditional dogfight strategems. Still the first hit could doom your opponent.
I believe a Dragon and Vampire to be an even match. Combat Conditions and Pilot familiarity with his craft would make the difference.
Guns are even....except the dragon's fission
missiles can be decoyed...SOMEONE here played nightmare???
Having torps would make dragon better multi-role, whereas mines would toast a dragon on it's tail.
manueverabilty...vampire has nacelles which boost pitch, but Dragon has autoslide which used properly, i mean short stints (i use them a lot) gives such an edge as to make the thing VERY hard to hit. A vampire making a minimum-radius loop can never beat a dragon using autoslide 180. The dragon would have the vamp in it's sights before it finised turning. On the other hand, the vampie could perform a very tight corkscrew 180 (raise your hand if you've used this please)
Speed...Vamp is faster and has good endurance, but not more endurance than the somewhat slower dragon. And endurance always tips the scales of the dogfight.
Cloak...oops vamp has no cloak...looks like Dragon gets to fire it's fissions first.
That's all I have to say there. Feel free to rip apart my statement as I'm sure you all will.
One thing : The dragon's main gunshave autotrack, which i do not like (not that i used em much anyways). Here is why :
I've played starlancer online and in a ship with autotrack turned on, try hitting an enemy do a corkscrew, whether coming at you or away from you. It aims at the ITTS point all the time,WHICH IS NOT the place to aim on a corkscrewing (hehe) target, or even a target that is performing monderate to complex evasive manuevers.
As far as Starlancer goes, WC nightmare trained me well, I have NEVER lost an even (1 on 1) dogfight. Talk as you may, it doesn't matter to me because It's the truth. I have had dogfights with VERY good pilots that lasted onwards of 10 minutes.
I leave this tip :
If you want to be an ace in any online flight game. STUDY ACTUAL AIR COMBAT TACTICS. The same that the military does. They're there because they really do work. A vast majority of opponents cannot cope with a pilot who is proficient with combat manuevering and has tactical mind to know when to use which manuever. Always outlast your opponent. If your on the tail of an enemy, and someone gets behind you, dont stay and take the hits so you can get a kill. EVADE, and you will still get a chance to toast both of them.
Thank You.
Anyone who says it's guns are underpowered would be insane. I played WC4 through on Nightmare (after beating it on Ace, so I can't take full credit, save dogfighting), and I had no trouble hitting with fissions. When under fire (common on Nightmare when outnumbered), placing one powerful shot is more important than staying on tail and pounding away.
Manueverability is above average, and with autoslide you can perform manuevers far beyond anything the computer musters.
Most judgements I have seen are based on firepower. I am a fan of agility. The goal in dogfighting is not to kill your opponent first...simply stay alive longer than he does. Even if this means forsaking a kill to allow your wingman an easy shot on your tailer.
As I said with "Stay alive longer than he does" Endurence is key. U/L afterburn makes this much easier. It is easier to evade fire under afterburn than normal thrust.
The cloaking device I never really used, save for first-strike opprotunity...then move to traditional dogfight strategems. Still the first hit could doom your opponent.
I believe a Dragon and Vampire to be an even match. Combat Conditions and Pilot familiarity with his craft would make the difference.
Guns are even....except the dragon's fission
missiles can be decoyed...SOMEONE here played nightmare???
Having torps would make dragon better multi-role, whereas mines would toast a dragon on it's tail.
manueverabilty...vampire has nacelles which boost pitch, but Dragon has autoslide which used properly, i mean short stints (i use them a lot) gives such an edge as to make the thing VERY hard to hit. A vampire making a minimum-radius loop can never beat a dragon using autoslide 180. The dragon would have the vamp in it's sights before it finised turning. On the other hand, the vampie could perform a very tight corkscrew 180 (raise your hand if you've used this please)
Speed...Vamp is faster and has good endurance, but not more endurance than the somewhat slower dragon. And endurance always tips the scales of the dogfight.
Cloak...oops vamp has no cloak...looks like Dragon gets to fire it's fissions first.
That's all I have to say there. Feel free to rip apart my statement as I'm sure you all will.
One thing : The dragon's main gunshave autotrack, which i do not like (not that i used em much anyways). Here is why :
I've played starlancer online and in a ship with autotrack turned on, try hitting an enemy do a corkscrew, whether coming at you or away from you. It aims at the ITTS point all the time,WHICH IS NOT the place to aim on a corkscrewing (hehe) target, or even a target that is performing monderate to complex evasive manuevers.
As far as Starlancer goes, WC nightmare trained me well, I have NEVER lost an even (1 on 1) dogfight. Talk as you may, it doesn't matter to me because It's the truth. I have had dogfights with VERY good pilots that lasted onwards of 10 minutes.
I leave this tip :
If you want to be an ace in any online flight game. STUDY ACTUAL AIR COMBAT TACTICS. The same that the military does. They're there because they really do work. A vast majority of opponents cannot cope with a pilot who is proficient with combat manuevering and has tactical mind to know when to use which manuever. Always outlast your opponent. If your on the tail of an enemy, and someone gets behind you, dont stay and take the hits so you can get a kill. EVADE, and you will still get a chance to toast both of them.
Thank You.
FrostyCOS1
Spaceman
oops...mines would toast a VAMPIRE on the dragons tail...sorry folks
But again, in the time it takes to charge up that one powerfull shot, aim it, and fire, the Vampire's six main guns would have shredded any target. And in the time you're evading while you wait for that one powerfull shot, you give your opponents more time to attack you, your wingmates, and what you're defending.
But the Vampire can out-turn it on all three axes (pitch, yaw, and roll) and two of these axes has near twice the agility of the Dragon. Plus it can autoslide as well.
Which is why it seems strange that you would consider the Dragon better, seeing as the Vampire can out-turn, out-run and out-accelerate the dragon.
True, but seriously, in how many missions have th your wingmen achieved the mission for you? And one of the best defences around is a good offence. If your enemy is dead, he can't kill you. Spend a lot of time flying defensively, OTH, and you give them time to pound you *and* whatever you're defending.
And I've yet to be in any mission, where with a smart use of afterburn and autoslide, where I have run out of afterburner fuel in a Vampire. And it's a lot easier to evade fire at 1500 KPS than at 1200 KPS, especially with the Vampire's superior agility.
Only if he can't see through your cloak, a technology with Confed had as early as WC4, and which the Nephilim seem to have mastered completely in WC4.
Which can't be used at the same time as the main guns, and is a slower kill than the main guns. The Vampire has signifcantly more firepower in its six main guns, especially in the Black Ops variant, than the Dragon.
Quite often, actually.
And it's kind of hard to decoy 32 warheads (16 normal missiles, and 16 Tracker missile heads) with the 24 decoys on a Dragon. On the other hand, decoying the 10 missiles on the Dragon with the 48 missiles on the Vampire would be much easier.Except the Strike Vampire carries torps too, and the vampire has quite a few more slots to carry mines in than the Dragon does.
Of course, a Vampire can make the same autoslide manuevers that a Dragon can. And given the Vampire's better turning rates, lower mass (hence m uch less inertia) and better speed, it can do those manuevers faster than the Dragon can.
Always assuming the fight lasts that long. Against a fighter that can out-gun, out-run, out-turn and out-accelerate it, that's a dubious proposition.
We can see through cloak in WC
. Double oops. You bet. As for Starlancer, the bulk of people on there are absolute rookies. If you want a real challenge, look for the people with SLE before their names.
Best, Raptor
FrostyCOS1
Spaceman
First...
I assumed we were talking about standard craft..sorry...It would be interesting to know what changes could be made to the dragon in ten or so years while the vamp was being developed, but thats not the point.
*standard* Vampire :
2 tachyon
2 partical
no autoslide
8 imrec
8 fof
4 tracker (16 fof)
Second....
We are talking about a one on one dogfight. Not talking about objectives, not talking about wingmen, and not talking about computer pilots.
Third...
You are correct, Dragon does not have enough decoys...however. As per WC4 (I've not shot at anything cloaked in WCP that i *remember*, so maybe I'm wrong) missiles lose lock when the target cloaks.
Finally...
I'm not doing this because I want to disprove you.
Different pilots fly different in different ships. We can agree on this i am sure. When it all comes down to it, survival depends on skill, training, and tactical thinking.
*There is no final answer to the question of which craft would win. Both of these are excellent craft, and in the hands of skilled pilots, either one could defeat the other. Perhaps we should just leave it to some famous words :
"It's the man, not the machine."
Agreed?
I assumed we were talking about standard craft..sorry...It would be interesting to know what changes could be made to the dragon in ten or so years while the vamp was being developed, but thats not the point.
*standard* Vampire :
2 tachyon
2 partical
no autoslide
8 imrec
8 fof
4 tracker (16 fof)
Second....
We are talking about a one on one dogfight. Not talking about objectives, not talking about wingmen, and not talking about computer pilots.
Third...
You are correct, Dragon does not have enough decoys...however. As per WC4 (I've not shot at anything cloaked in WCP that i *remember*, so maybe I'm wrong) missiles lose lock when the target cloaks.
Finally...
I'm not doing this because I want to disprove you.
Different pilots fly different in different ships. We can agree on this i am sure. When it all comes down to it, survival depends on skill, training, and tactical thinking.
*There is no final answer to the question of which craft would win. Both of these are excellent craft, and in the hands of skilled pilots, either one could defeat the other. Perhaps we should just leave it to some famous words :
"It's the man, not the machine."
Agreed?
FrostyCOS1
Spaceman
My bad...Vamp has autoslide, dunno what ship i was thinking of, sorry. In any case, see previous post, minus "no autoslide"
Both the Black Vampire and the Strike Vampire have been shown to exist, and are just as much valid Vampire variants as the F-15 C and E are valid vairants of the Eagle. On the other hand, no improved Dragons have been shown to exist, so it's just pointless speculation. Also, the Vampire has four tachyons and twin particle cannons.
Both the Dragon and the Vampire are Confed fighters, so a one on one dogfight between the two is a much less likely possibility than the mission situation I was describing. And as I recall, you were the one who brought up allowing the wingman to take the kill, so I was simply answering the point.
I certainly agree that the man is as important than the machine. (Otherwise, the Border Worlders would be getting their butts kicked left, right and centre in the HTL storyline I'm writing.) However, the macine is still a factor, and in an analysis of weapons, speed and agility it seems to me that the Vampire has an edge over the Dragon.
Best, Raptor
Both the Dragon and the Vampire are Confed fighters, so a one on one dogfight between the two is a much less likely possibility than the mission situation I was describing. And as I recall, you were the one who brought up allowing the wingman to take the kill, so I was simply answering the point.
I certainly agree that the man is as important than the machine. (Otherwise, the Border Worlders would be getting their butts kicked left, right and centre in the HTL storyline I'm writing.) However, the macine is still a factor, and in an analysis of weapons, speed and agility it seems to me that the Vampire has an edge over the Dragon.
Best, Raptor