What actually happened at K'Tithrak Mang?

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
I am still thinking about Blair's fault...
You know... It wasn't the first time he was neglecting patrol duty - you sure do remember those three Fralthis in SM2 he engaged in Hornet, not thinking of what he was doing.

Was it the same? Was he so busy fighting, that he forgot to report?
Then... It looks like he's in many ways like mr. Marshall?...
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
Was it the same? Was he so busy fighting, that he forgot to report?

He wasn't fighting anything though. They briefly showed on sensors, like a skipper missile, and he went to check out what it was.

There may have been other circumstances, such as the Claw may have had a general radio silence order in effect to reduce their profile. In that sort of situation Blair would have to decide if reporting something that might be just a computer glitch was worth broadcasting his position and by extension the position of the Claw.

He's not a complete idiot, in the same sense that he's not a genius with an IQ of 6,000.
 

AApt24

Spaceman
I think you people are looking too much into a story that is over a decade old. You know how these things work, the bone head writers try to incorporate different things in a later game, and screw up what happened before. Kinda like how Batman has a different person kill his dad over and over again in the movies. WC suffered the same problem, especially in WCIV and Prophecy, the writers tried to do too much and wound up confusing people who remembered the older games.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
I think you people are looking too much into a story that is over a decade old. You know how these things work, the bone head writers try to incorporate different things in a later game, and screw up what happened before. Kinda like how Batman has a different person kill his dad over and over again in the movies. WC suffered the same problem, especially in WCIV and Prophecy, the writers tried to do too much and wound up confusing people who remembered the older games.

Whatever the real world reasons, that isn't the point of this thread. You comming in here and making a pointless post that isn't contributing to this thread could be considered inflamatory. Consider this a warning.

Quoting Tolwyn, we're "bloody well aware of that." And that in and of itself is the point of this thread. Some of us enjoy figuring out if and how these things could work. And a surprising amount of the time a fairly simple solution becomes obvious. That's not to say there aren't issues in the WC universe but you coming in here now, with this kind of reply isn't cool.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
You know how these things work, the bone head writers try to incorporate different things in a later game, and screw up what happened before. Kinda like how Batman has a different person kill his dad over and over again in the movies.

That's intentional though. I can see the Batman discussion being pointless, because there's obviously no attempt to have everything coexist. That is not the case in Wing Commander. It's always been evident, but newer official timelines and guides such as Star*Soldier just reiterate that it's all good and works together.
 

Madman

Vice Admiral
I was just readingthe part about the Claw's destruction in the WC1 & 2 Ultimate Guide, apparently the battle took a bit less than the time it took Blair to get from his position (about 110,000 km from the Claw) to the Claw at full afterburner, so it was still a pretty short battle.

also, I read the mission profile for the second WC2 mission (the first of the Save the Concordia ones, page 181), it says "The Concordia hit one (Sartha) with her phase-transit cannon, then Shadow and I had an easy job taking care of the last Sartha with our guns." So was it just a lucky shot or a delibrate targeting?

I remember getting totalled more than once by the sodding PTC during wc2.

This actually raises an interesting point - we know that the PTC can destroy "any ship" and logically therefore theres no reason why it cant be used on a fighter (if it is silly enough to stay in the line of fire for long enough) - however, we also know that firing the PTC in the 2nd save the concordia mission nearly rips it to pieces (reminiscent years later with the midway) and even if that was a one off, it severely drains the power reserves - so on that basis, through design or intent we have to assume that the PTC is not designated for anti-fighter work, and instead only for the disposal of passing kamekh's (as we see regularly) or even ralaris (if i remember correctly in one of the losing endings we get a ralari vs concordia)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
This actually raises an interesting point - we know that the PTC can destroy "any ship" and logically therefore theres no reason why it cant be used on a fighter (if it is silly enough to stay in the line of fire for long enough) - however, we also know that firing the PTC in the 2nd save the concordia mission nearly rips it to pieces (reminiscent years later with the midway) and even if that was a one off, it severely drains the power reserves - so on that basis, through design or intent we have to assume that the PTC is not designated for anti-fighter work, and instead only for the disposal of passing kamekh's (as we see regularly) or even ralaris (if i remember correctly in one of the losing endings we get a ralari vs concordia)

We don't actually know that it drains the power reserve - just that it can't operate safely when the power reserves have been drained.


That's intentional though. I can see the Batman discussion being pointless, because there's obviously no attempt to have everything coexist. That is not the case in Wing Commander. It's always been evident, but newer official timelines and guides such as Star*Soldier just reiterate that it's all good and works together.

Also, it's worth noting that comic universes *do* integrate this sort of error into themselves within the limits of their own continuity - we see different universe and in-fiction setting reboots and all sorts of things designed to make it okay that there's twenty Origin stories for the same character.
 

Madman

Vice Admiral
oops, yes ralatha of course!

to loaf, i always thought that the reason the concordia was in straits was because it had taken down something with the PTC and thus had drained its power leaving it exposed?
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
By the way...
What would be Ralari's armament?
What threat could it be to the 'Claw?
We all remeber Halcyen's words:
"Good, we can't afford such a firepower near us...".
 

Nomad Terror

Rear Admiral
Well, the Ralari is a destroyer, while the Tiger's Claw is a strike carrier.

I don't know exactly what anti-capship capabilities the Tiger's Claw has other than the torpedo tubes we see in the movie and of course launching bombers, but the Ralari definitely has anti-capship weaponry, since that is what its role calls for.

I really have very little doubt a Ralari that got the jump on the Tiger's Claw would be capable of destroying it.
 

Madman

Vice Admiral
i dunno, given that all wc1 era ships are vulnerable to missiles and even guns i think that the claw should just win it, although with substantial damage.
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
That's a tough call. In the movie, the Claw definitely makes short work of destroyers, twice I think (with only one volley.)

We definitely see those bombardment lasers fire in one of the WC1 cutscenes...they might be suited for anti-capship work as well, and they're probably quite powerful.

I'd say, of all the carrier types operating during the 2650's, the Bengal class would certainly stand the best chance of taking out another capship 1v1.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
to loaf, i always thought that the reason the concordia was in straits was because it had taken down something with the PTC and thus had drained its power leaving it exposed?

All we're told is that it *can't* fire the gun because the power reserve is so low - we don't know what happened to take out all her power.

Re: the Ralari - I don't think *any* captain, no matter how superior his ship is, is happy about the prospect of a ship to ship action. A battle with a Ralari *might* not destroy the Tiger's Claw, but it would damage it in some fashion.
 

MjavTheGray

Spaceman
But still... What would be Ralari's armament?
I mean the in-game Ralari, not the in-film one. Definitely in-film 'Claw wouldn't have troubles defeating any capship head-to-head.

But.. Speaking of WC1... When in SM2 we do escort Fralthi to the 'Claw, and we meet the other Fralthi, and two Fralthis engage in ship-to-ship fight... I do remeber enemy Fralthi to be blown. So, WC1 capships do have anti-capship armament. It surely wasn't Spirit - I ordered her to go home. It sure wasn't me - I was too busy dealing with Grathas (or were they Jalthis?). So it has to be Hobbes - the one who blew the cruiser.

Were it defense turrets of Fralhtis?
Or were is some "big cannons" ?
For if there were "big cannons", then Ralari sure has the same guns.

Ah. One more question. Anybody... Ever... Had seen Venture fire its heave neutrons?
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
Beating another capship doesn't necessarily mean the victor emerges unharmed. If you're unable to carry out your mission (generally referred to as a mission kill), you're as good as destroyed anyway, at least in the short term. Blair, after all, didn't have to destroy the Lexington to defend the Intrepid.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
But still... What would be Ralari's armament?
I mean the in-game Ralari, not the in-film one. Definitely in-film 'Claw wouldn't have troubles defeating any capship head-to-head.

This question is more difficult to answer than it seems. Internally, Wing Commander I gives the Ralari six single-mount laser turrets and one Image Recognition missile launcher.

'In continuity', though, we build on multiple sources to discern a ships total weaponry - which gives the Ralari:

(15) Single Mount Laser Turrets
(8) Torpedo Tubes
(2) Dual Mount Laser Turrets
(2) Antimatter Guns
(1) Claw IR Launcher
(1) Space Mine Launcher
(1) Ship-to-Planet Missile Launcher (Optional)
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
That's interesting... definitely paints a more complete picture of the Ralari class' capabilities. Are we able to do the same for the Tiger's Claw? I know you mentioned in this thread or elsewhere what the in-game armament is, but clearly the movie depicts even more.
 
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