WC4 is harder than I recall!!??

D

DocScorpio

Spaceman
I just finished replaying WC3 on "Ace" difficulty and found it mildly challenging, but no real problem. Now I'm replaying WC4 and this thing is TOUGH for me on "Ace." I don't remember WC4 being this hard....and I'm pretty sure I played it on "Ace" last time through (10 years ago?). I do recall that I thought WCP was significantly harder than WC4, but I have no memory of WC4 being all that hard.

I'm only on Mission B3 Recon Photos, but I'm having a tough time with the dogfights. These guys are fast, they really missile you....and the missiles really hurt. Seems like I'm constantly pumping out decoys just to stay alive. Guess I'm finally getting too old for this stuff. ;)
 
Yes, missiles in WC 4 are a real bane. Often it's 1 hit and you're dead.

But odd, I found WCP to be the easiest WC game by far.
 
This is because Wing Commander IV's missiles are much deadlier than those in Wing Commander III... and when you go right from one to the other it's sort of a shock.

The mission you're flying now is especially bad, though, since there's a ground turret that churns out a steady stream of of the aforementioned super-deadly missiles. Try hitting that as soon as you get to each Nav point and it should be a little bit easier.
 
One way that can help in that mission is to load a rack of ImRecs, and one of Leech missiles. At each nav point, toggle off an ImRec at the turret as soon as you come out of autopilot, following up with gunfire. By the time the missile hits, your guns should have softened up the missile turret enough that the missile warhead will finish off the turret, [edit]if not outright killing it by gunfire alone (remember, there's no such thing as overkill, just "need to reload" and "enough" :D ).[/edit]

As soon as the turret is out of the way, lob a Leech at the non-ace pilot (if an ace is present, I forget the details for that mission, off the top of my head) to disable him, and focus on gunning down the remaining Vindicator (if present; nav 2 has only 1 Vindicator). Pop the disabled ship if you want to be especially cruel, switch to the camera and take the pictures, then switch back to regular guns and proceed to next waypoint. Rinse and repeat. Unless you screw the pooch on the ground, you'll be clear for the return flight.
 
So it's not just me.....it is harder. I did think WCP was a harder than WC4, but I last played both years ago so I could easily be mistaken. I'll see when I get to WCP.

It's not just missiles, the AI seems improved. Enemy ships really zip around and seem much harder to target with guns (or maybe the "hit zone" is reduced, compared to WC3). When a hostile gets on my six, it's curtains, if I don't get him off pronto.

Anyway, I'll persevere. Thanks for the tips all.
 
I agree with loaf, I thought WCP was by far the easiest of the WC games, followed by the original. WC4 was definitely the hardest, I've never been able to beat it without using invulnerability at some point.
 
Yea but I love the way the missiles are in WC4. Even the slightest skirmish is frantic for the player because just one missile will kill you in most any ship you fly and the enemies use missiles quite liberally. God help you if you run out of afterburner in the middle of a WC4 dogfight.

I just played through it on Ace difficulty last spring. Quite a challenge but very fun. I too came to it immediately after replaying WC3 (I was playing the entire series chronologically) and, even though I've played both games several times before, the transition is -always- a surprise. You get so used to flying a certain way in the first three games and then you get to WC4 only to find yourself getting completely owned early in the game in those photo recon missions on Tyr.

As was mentioned though, best way to do those Tyr missions is to destroy those ground turrets immediately. If you want to save missiles you should be able to burn at it and take it out with guns - it'll launch a missile or two most likely but the angle of attack (if you do it right) should be so narrow that they'll have a hard time hitting you. Get in there and hit them fast and on the first past before those Vindicators are on you. Personally I just fire off an Imrec at 'em and that's that.

Might take you a few tries though. When I was ten years old and playing WC4 jointly with a friend we were STUCK at the Tyr missions without hope until I discovered the invulnerability thing.
 
So who are the guys that play WC4 on "Nightmare".....and beat it? They must know every aspect of the game, have super reflexes, exceptional situational awareness......and a much better stick than mine.

I originally played WC4 on a P100 (or maybe a 120) and am wondering if the flight engine runs faster on my current rig. More likely, my reflexes have just gone in the crapper over the last decade.

To experiment a bit, I dropped the dif to "Veteran" and found that even pretty tough, whereas on "Rookie," it's just too easy (and embarassing to boot :eek: ).

As others have noted, I guess the play-style I got accustomed to during the first three games just isn't going to cut it in WC4. But, I tell you, it's not just the missiles. The dogfights just seem harder. In WC3, I could easily target and kill a low-end Kilrathi ship with two or three shots. In WC4, I can hardly target them at all; they jitter and dodge all over the place.....and they're fast. It takes me forever to score enough gun hits to damage them, especially since I have to constantly break pursuit to shake off the ones that get on my six.

The plan was to play all the games on "default" difficulty. Lets see if I'm going to be able to do that. :)
 
I actually find WC3 more of a burden on Ace than WC4. The WC4 battles seem to be a bit more fast paced which is to my liking *cough*A.D.D.*cough*

Maybe it's just my computer or version of DOSBOX, but I have a hard time gunning down cat fighters without using missiles. Veteran is just right for me and seems to make sense (considering a Thud's guns should pretty much mince a Darket)

The real trouble in WC4 starts when you run out of decoys, you might as well eject then and there ya know?

Playing it on Hard is just ridiculous, ESPECIALLY against Hellcats. They NEVER die from guns unless you use a Dragon. Bearcats = forget about it!
 
When I replayed WC3 I'd completely forgotten about the in-flight ALT-O option screeen. I actually thought WC4 was the first WC game with selectable difficulty. After discovering ALT-O in WC4, I checked WC3 last night and was amazed to find the same option screen.

I had the opposite of your experience. In WC3 I used guns as much as possible and only relied on missiles as a last resort when things really got tough. For me, the Vaktoth was the toughest Kilrathi ship to fight. Engagements with 4 to 6 of those was a chore and that's what I saved my missiles for. For everything else (except torpedoes for capships) I relied on guns (unless I was in a Longbow). Dralthis were easiest, followed closely by Darkets, Strakha and Paktahns. Sorthaks and K'ha'hafs (those bloody mines) took a little more work.

I've just got to develop some workable techniques for WC4.....and maybe get some new reflexes. :) Right now I'm just amazed at how fast I can get killed. In WC3 you could take quite a licking and keep on ticking, in WC4 it's bullet holes on my windscreen and "Today the Confederation's Greatest Hero........"
 
I just realize who much less I played WC 3 in comparison to other WC games. I think I played through it only three times. Though I probably started it more often. But I never developed any tactics for WC 3, I think.

Vinman said:
I agree with loaf, I thought WCP was by far the easiest of the WC games(...)
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I am sorry but you're only agreeing with me. :)
 
Mekt-Hakkikt said:
I just realize who much less I played WC 3 in comparison to other WC games. I think I played through it only three times. Though I probably started it more often. But I never developed any tactics for WC 3, I think.



I am sorry but you're only agreeing with me. :)
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Hehe, whoops, I saw his avatar and made a leap. In any event, the bugs seem to attract gunfire like a magnet in the same way that the kats did in the first two Wing Commanders.
 
It is common knowledge that the AI in WCP isn't quite as deadly as in some other WC games.

I am worried about people saying that WC4 is the hardest WC game... I barely beat SO1 the first time around and it took me a while to figure out some aspects of the game's mechanics (AMGs, enemy AI, kills on the first pass, bombing runs...).

We'll see when I get to WC4, I suppose. The fact that I use a mouse may or may not help. :)
 
WC4 is really difficult because of the power of missiles. The AI is on par with that seen in WC3, but again when missiles are so deadly it kind of negates any advantage that was there.

The WCP AI's problem is that it loves afterburners a bit too much. It's also rather stingy with guided missiles, even on Nightmare, I often find that my biggest concern is dumbfires and not the guided weapons.
 
Sharpshooter said:
It is common knowledge that the AI in WCP isn't quite as deadly as in some other WC games.

I am worried about people saying that WC4 is the hardest WC game... I barely beat SO1 the first time around and it took me a while to figure out some aspects of the game's mechanics (AMGs, enemy AI, kills on the first pass, bombing runs...).

We'll see when I get to WC4, I suppose. The fact that I use a mouse may or may not help. :)
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It's a relief to hear that WCP is actually considered easier than WC4....even if that isn't my memory (which is probably faulty after all these years). I didn't think SO1 was all that bad, except for that bloody final mission, which was, IMO, horrendously hard.

One thing I disliked about WCP (and this also goes for its FS competition) is the "We can only make the missions so hard, so lets give you double and triple missions between save opportunities to increase your frustration level."

I only switched from mouse to stick when I reached WC3 because mouse control just didn't seem to cut it anymore for me in that game. Maybe I should try the mouse in WC4 and see if that helps any for aiming.
 
Well, actually, SO1's final missions (both winning and losing) were indeed the only ones that gave me any real trouble. Destroying the Fralthra is next to impossible if you don't know how to dodge AMGs. You've really got to plan your bombing run carefully.

I've just won SO1's final losing mission, by the way. 5+4 Gothris... wow. Destroying the Fralthra was much easier once I'd understood the trick : the AMGs are very slow when turning around, so if you trick the AMGs into, say, firing on the "left" side of the screen and you attack from the "right" side, they'll be firing at nothing and that leaves you a while to fire your torpedo. If you do it right, you'll hit the Fralthra before it is able to re-aim the AMGs at you properly.
 
I played WC4 recently on "Ace" and found it hard but possible - I think I die mostly from collisions, they really really hurt in WC4. But now I'm trying it on the next difficulty up, and the second dead zone mission (Peleus 2?) is now completely impossible. I usually survive about 10 seconds after meeting enemies... Any suggestions?
 
Heh, so far I'm finding WC4 "Ace" to be impossible after the first few missions. I've dropped back to "Veteran" to develop some skills so that I can finish the first Tyr photo recon mission. For me, WC4 "Ace" is about twice as hard as WC3 "Ace".....that's just gunnery and maneuvering. So far, I've found AB and decoys to be the key to survival. I AB as close to the Banshees as possible and shoot'em up. The "hot zone" for hits must really be small because sometimes I'm shooting them from right on their tail and can't score hits.

My hats off to you if you can get anywhere on "Hard" difficulty. :)
 
How long has it been since you've played? I recall replaying the old mario and TMNT games on NES sooooo many years after my original NES shit the bed. Compared to how I was back then (age 3) I really suck now!
 
frostytheplebe said:
How long has it been since you've played? I recall replaying the old mario and TMNT games on NES sooooo many years after my original NES shit the bed. Compared to how I was back then (age 3) I really suck now!
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The receipt in the box indicates I bought WC4 on 2/13/96 at Egghead Software. I probably played it for a couple of months at most, as I went through lots of games in those days. I haven't played it since, till a few days ago. I was 54 when I played it back then so I'm no spring chicken now, that's for sure. ;) However, over the last few months, I've been able to play through WC (SM, SM2), WC2 (SO1, SO2) and WC3 without any major problem.

Undoubtedly, part of the problem is dimished reflexes and eye-hand coordination. However, it truly seems to me like the WC4 in-flight stuff runs really fast on my rig. Maybe, I did OK on my replays of the earlier games because I was running them through DosBox and they were running slower for that reason. :) I experienced some slowdowns in WC2 when they're were lots of ships/space objects on screen, but this actually made combat harder rather than easier. WC3 seemed perfectly smooth speedwise; no slowdowns at all via DosBox. Maybe WC4 ran slower on whatever rig I originally played it on (P100, I think), which may have contributed to my memory of it being easier back in the day.

In any case, WC4 remains the great game I remember from back when. I may have to give up on "Ace," but it's still fun. BTW, the movies look a lot better with no-interlacing and true color enabled.
 
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