WC1 era errors

U

Unforgiven

Spaceman
Not so very long ago, I played WC1 from Kilrathi Saga. I also played 2, 3, 4 and are now playing Prophecy, but that's besides the point.
I never read any novels or fanfic (although I intend to), so I'm not as well versed in the WC Universe as some of you people here, but this seemed curious to me.
In Wing Commander 1, Blair arrives on the Tiger's Claw, fresh from the academy. Judging from the conversations, especially those with Shotglass, he's never been on the Tiger's Claw before, and he definitely didn't know Maniac yet.
But the Wing Commander Academy TV series tells us Blair and Maniac knew each other from the academy, and had even served on the Tiger's Claw before, under Tolwyn, who to the best of my knowledge never was on the Tiger's Claw in any of the games and didn't appear until WC2.
To make matters worse, while the movie seems to support the stance that Blair and Maniac knew each other from the academy, Maniac didn't have his callsign yet in the movie, while he did in WCA. Was Angel in WCA btw? I can't remember for sure, but I seem to recall she was, which is also inconsistent with both the movie and WC1.
And in the movie Angel is a Lt. Commander, which isn't even a Space Force rank, while in WC1, she's a Colonel.
Not to mention that WC1 and the movie both tell the events that happened immediately after Blair got aboard the Tiger's Claw, but both are totally different. (Or perhaps the Tiger's Claw and the Tiger Claw are actually different ships? <vbg> )
Paladdin was a pilot on the Tiger's Claw, not a special forces operative for Tolwyn when Blair came aboard, and again, they didn't meet before Blair boarded the Tiger's Claw.
I won't even begin to comment on Pilgrims here.
Overall the games are pretty consistent, but the rest screws all events around and before WC1 up.

[Edited by Unforgiven on 05-12-2001 at 11:59]
 
You just unleashed a tornado unforgiven... I wonder if LOAF will ever forgive you... :)
Ok, bad joke, but IT IS true that there are points in the WCU (Wing Commander Universe) that do not seem consistent with one another...

I will not debate on this, I have my own opinions and I maintain them, but our dear Bandit LOAF will certainly enlighten you on the matter... just wait for his answer. :cool:
 
The reason why there are all these errors is becuase unlike some Scifi universes, like babylon 5, WC does not have a set course and plan pre-written. It just goes with the flow so to speak kinda like Star Trek, tons of inconsitancies develope but it is still fun none the less.
 
Patiently waiting

for LOAF's response. Indeed, considering he seems to be a walking WC encoclypedia, I am eager to find out his response. Considering I'm not that well versed in novels and stuff like the Confed Handbook, there are people that are bound to come up with an explanation for all of this.
That's why I posted this, I want to know other peoples opinions.
 
Originally posted by Napoleon
The reason why there are all these errors is becuase unlike some Scifi universes, like babylon 5, WC does not have a set course and plan pre-written. It just goes with the flow so to speak kinda like Star Trek, tons of inconsitancies develope but it is still fun none the less.
Click to expand...
Of course! I never said this took anything away from the fun of it.
 
Yay, someone wants to talk about continuity! I love talking about this stuff!

Maniac recieved his callsign at the Academy -- the incidents surrounding it are detailed in "Wing Commander I & II The Ultimate Strategy Guide" (p. 28, "Earning Nicknames"). Despite Rosie's claim that "He has a new callsign", there's no real indication in the movie that the landing was what earned him his callsign -- he simply introduced himself as Todd "Maniac" Marshall afterwards...

As for knowing Blair at the Academy -- that's been a part of WC's mythology since the first game... the introductions in WC1 are to give the *player* an introduction to the characters. Maniac and Blair were both graduates of the most recent Academy class according to Claw Marks, and details of the Academy years are found in the aforementioned WC1/2 Guide. We can look at the 'introductory' conversations one at a time, though... (Shotglass, Bossman, Iceman and Spirit can be ignored, since there's no indication that they'd met Blair previously). I do, of course, recognize *why* they were originally written -- but I think we can examine them in another light now...

Angel, Hunter and Knight all start their 'intro' callsigns asking if they have Blair's callsign right...

"Maverick, right? I'm Knight."
"You're Maverick, right? They call me Hunter, mate. G'day."
"Bonjour, Lieutenant. You are called Maverick, no?"

Given Blair's switching of callsigns (from Maverick to Pilgrim back to Maverick), this could be construed as some sort of running joke... especially since Blair doesn't actually respond to them, and they immediately jump into ranting about whatever's on their mind.

Paladin introduces himself differently: "Och, laddy, take a seat an' tilt a glass with ol' Paladin. I recall once when I was just a lieutenant like yourself there..." (he goes on to tell the anecdote) -- there's no indication that they've never met before; in fact, he seems rather familiar with Blair. As we see in the movie, Paladin is both a special operative *and* a pilot -- he points out that he's served on Tiger's Claw in the past in the movie novel, and presumably could do so again... it's also indicated in the WC3 novel that Paladin *was* an operative before he 'retired'.

Maniac's, though, can only be sarcasm: "Hey, Maverick. I'm Maniac. Glad to meetcha."

Tolwyn's first appearance was in SM2 -- the orders included in the manual are written by him. His time as Captain of the 'Claw was something mentioned in passing long before WCA came out -- it shows up in the Heart of the Tiger novel, as Blair thinks back to when Tolwyn took over Tiger's Claw and brought up Captain Thorn on charges of cowardice (p. 272).

All the ranks in the movie were naval -- however, the WCU seems to easily switch between them... (the best example would be "Confederation Pilot Trades Heroism for House Arrest" on page 55 of the Kilrathi Saga manual -- in which Blair is called Lt. Commander). Characters seem to switch between service depending on required position -- Blair became a Naval officer in WCP so he could be a Commodore and thus work on Midway and so forth and so on... since there's no evidence that Angel attended the Academy, the most logical explanation is that she *was* a Naval officer (there are Navy pilots -- in Action Stations, for example) and switched to the Space Forces.

There's also no indication in WC1 when Blair and Maniac came aboard -- you start immediately during the patrol at Enyo, and there's no introduction. Blair and Maniac recieve their transfer to Tiger's Claw in the first episode of Academy, actually transfer there in the movie, and then (well, after 'Stars) go through WC1 and the WCA series.
 
I thought I might be doing you a favour LOAF <g>
You explanation seems reasonable enough. Although even you got to admit that it sounds a lot like trying to talk a mistake straight. All this cannot be easily construed from the game.
One can think that Shotglasses introductions are done just for the player, but I think that would have been setup right. Shotglass reminds me a bit of Boothby, the Academy groundskeeper in Star Trek, the old guy who has seen it all passing his wisdom on to the rookie. To me it just doesn't seem like the WC way of story telling to introduce characters while you already new them. Maestro isn't introduced like that.
I'll definitely lean towards your explanation for the Paladin/Tolwyn part. It's just that I haven't read any of that stuff so I couldn't have known that. And indeed, Paladin does seem to act a little familiar. But of course that could just be his way.
Anyone could swing both ways here, depending on his/her beliefs (tm). As long of course as we remember that it is just a story and that continuity errors are not only allowed, but bound to happen.
Switching ranks is indeed often done, but it wouldn't make sense for a Wing Commander like Angel not to be in the Space Force. But of course, one could argue that she was in the process of transfering, had already assumed her new position but the bureaucratic mill of Confed HQ had yet to pass the paperwork on her transfer of service.
At least WC doesn't have disappearing ranks, and sticks to real ones, unlike Star Trek, where the Commodore rank of TOS doesn't exist anymore in TNG and beyond.
I never played SM2. I never had the original WC1, I started at WC2. And on my recent runthrough of all, just after my acquiring of KS, I just played SM1 for a part, and then decided to skip the mission disks.
Here's a continuity error for ya: when playing WC1, both the Iceman and Maniac died. I redid the mission of Maniac's death, because I new he 'should' live beyond WC1, but I never saved the Iceman. Yet in SM1, he was alive and well!!
 
Question and maybe an explaination

1) The pilots in WCA TV never graduated from the Academy, so, they are still cadets. Did they transfer another flight wing onto the Claw after the cadets left?

2) At least in the present, a pilot gets a new callsign when he is assigned to a new ship or squadron.
 
Originally posted by Ghost
BTW O´Brian in the Enterprise was a Lt. or a Petty Officer :D
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Yeah, O'Brian confused me to, especially since while a transporter chief might be called chief indeed (we have no other example to set presedent), O'Brian is the only Chief of Operations I ever saw to be called chief. Data isn't, nor is Kim.
But this is kind of OT, so we shouldn't pursue that here. *Slams his head down on the keyboard*
 
I think that people complaining about the Maniac introduction (a complaint that's been around almost as long as the game itself) is what had them *not* introduce Maestro -- instead, the fact that he and Casey have a background is explicitly spoken of in the manual and referenced in the intro.

The pilots in Wing Commander Academy weren't actually at the Academy -- they were at a special command school... they'd already graduated from the Academy on Hilthros, and were at Flight School on Sirius when the show opens.


Re, Star Trek stuff: I seem to recall a big fuss being made when he was originally popularized that O'Brian was interesting because he was the first Star Trek example of an enlisted crewmember... at least, I think that was the intent when his character originally appeared -- they may have changed that completely since.

And I hate to defend Star Trek, because... well, there are major religions to do that, but Commodore is an *actual* disappearing rank -- it only exists at certain times, when the Navy needs commodores <G> (I'm not sure the circumstances... it may be only during wartime... or something like that).
 
I seem to recall a LCDR Charles Chen on the Tiger Claw in the movie...aka Bossman...Charles doesn't sound very Winston to me...
 
Or, if you will, Secret Missions 2: Crusade ('bout half of FF coincides with SM2).

Bossman's name was Kien, BTW.

LOAF: That's right, I believe, about Commodore. Only during wartime. Same goes for Brigadier, too, but I could be wrong.

And, according to Bill Forstchen's The Forgotten War, Starfleet once had Marines with ranks like private and sergeant during Pike's time... maybe we'll see this in the new show Enterprise with Scott Bakula (I know, ST novels are definitely apocryphal, but, ya know, it'd still be cool...) Also, there was a Colonel in ST6: The Undiscovered Country, but we never see a rank like this again.
 
Its possible that in ST, any soldiers we see would be specialized security officers and enlisted men. The Colonel being in charge of them.
 
He doesn't die until Freedom Flight? Aw, crap, now I gotta go replay SM1...thanks a lot.

Ah, Bossman and those continuity problems...and his lousy flying...seriously, I really wish that Angel, Bossman and the like would actually listen to me when I tell them to go back to base...in WC1, anyway...

BARON: Go back to base.
ANGEL/BOSSMAN/SPIRIT/ETC: No, I won't.
Three seconds later...
ANGEL/BOSSMAN/SPIRIT/ETC: Sorry, you're on your own...::screen fritzes out::
BARON: Aw, crap.
 
Speaking of Continuity, we know Paladin is on the Claw in SM2 but he's also back at Sol working for Intel in Freedom Flight. At which point does he leave the Claw?
 
Freedom Flight doesnt mention him leaving, hes just there at Sol station when Kirha and Hobbes get there. But then he wouldnt have been therefor the end of SM2

sorry if you hadnt gotten to that part in the book:)

[Edited by Supdon3 on 05-12-2001 at 23:27]
 
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