WC fans are Republicans?

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Nomad Terror said:
I'm happy to see political debates taking a back seat on forums pertaining to a politically-neutral topic such as this.

How is this a politically neutral topic if the very topic is "WC fans are Republicans?"
are WC fans in the US generally Republicans?

Well LeHah see that thing right at the end off Baphomets post,that is a question mark my friend and so Baphomet has posed the question without actually making any value judgement or statement, and the majority of the replies have answered in the negatory, in that they believe the WC forums are pretty balanced out between the spectrum.
First off - don't act silly

Secondly - how can someone make any kind of neutrality if they're asking about the possible political standings of others involved? By asking people what political affiliation they have - its automaticly a political situation, which is not known as being exceedingly neutral.
So far, I'd say this thread is incredibly nuetral, considering the subject matter. And by nuetral, I mean no flames as yet.

I consider myself a conservative, and would probably vote for Libertarians instead of Republicans, if the average Libertarian had a snowball's chance in Southern California in August of winning an election.

Forstchen, from what I've read of his work, seems to adhere to the old Roman statement: "He who desires peace should prepare for war" (or something like that. I forget the Latin) It doesn't surprise me that he's a Republican.
Hello everyone, I know a lot of you do not know me but I have been hanging around for several years. I do not often reply because most of the time I am at work and you people have much more knowlege of wing commander than I do.

But I would like to respond to this thread because it is very interesting. I have voted Republican for the last few election cycles. I am from Texas and there is something here called a yellow dog Democrat. What that means is that a person would rather vote for a yellow dog in the street before voting Republican. My family was always yellow dog democrats until the Carter administration. During the Carter Presidency it had become apparent to my dad that something in the Democratic party changed. Fast forward to 2000 and it is clear that the counter culture movement of the 60's had taken over the Democratic party. The values and ideas of the old Southern Democrats such as a strong military, moral conviction, etc. were being mocked and ridiculed. So by the time I got to vote we were voting Republican.

As far as Ms. Colter she is a shrill voice on the far right of conservitism(sp?) and I like her when she is in her place. Take away the shrill rhetoric and she has some good points like unchallenged liberlism has caused far more harm to the social fabric of society than conservitism.

Anyway, very interesting thread and so far very civilized that is refreshing. Nice to see people with intellectual maturity willing to discuss a fiery topic without flames.

I could never in good conscience vote for a diesel truck, imagine what his stand on environmental issues would be.
Dragon1 said:
In fact, politics these days is more or less a money game with slogans attatched to it like, 'save the buck-tooth horn beak spotted Owl' or 'viva Bush'.

hey, owls are very cool birds!

i'm not a republican. but then, i'm still working on becoming american, so you can probably disregard this post...:(
I meant Wing Commander as a whole is a politically neutral topic.

As a result there is very few political commentary on this forum compared to other main topics of interest
Nah, it's just that the politics are different from real world ones, if you recall that politics isn't solely limited to issues regarding political parties and governments.

Off the top of my head, there's the issue of whether something is canon or not (particularly WCM and Privateer 2: The Darkening, but not limited to those two), as well as "Was Tolwyn right?". And then there's the issue of what ship is better than the other, as well.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm pre-caffeine, so neurons aren't firing at full efficiency just yet.
I seem to remember something about two political factions in the Senate (mentioned in the ICIS manual). If I recall, there was a 'federationalist' party that believed Confed must retain a large central military and authority over member worlds, and there was something like a 'confederationalist' (Uh, I know this one is wrong, but for the life of me I can't remember the name) party that pushed a policy to decentralize and down-scale the military as a whole.

You will notice that concepts of both our modern party systems exist in these fictional parties. The 'federationalists' have both 'Democrat' (large central government) and 'Republican' (large defense budget/industry) viewpoints tied into their philosophy, much like the other party in Confed.

The main politics of the day in Confed 2681 is centered around the government becoming more 'Federal' that it aleady had during the period of the war.
The two parties in the ICIS Manual were "Federationist" and "Populist". It's hard to divide them clearly intp Republican and Democrat, though -- the Populist candidate *did* want a military cutback... but he also wanted the majority of that cutback to go to tax relief.

(I think it's also hardly telling that the 'good guy' Paladin is someone who supports the Republican view of military spending -- military officers tend to supprot military spending, it'd be unrealistic for them not to.)
The government of Confed in 2681 would seem to be already very federal. The description of Confed in the WC Prophecy Strategy Guide would indicate that when the Confederation came about, that it actually worked like a model Confederation (almost non-existant central govt.). If I remember correctly, it was stated to be an economic alliance joined by a unified military. The Senate was more of an advisory body, the members worlds retained their own sovereignty. Their was no mention of a chief executive at all.

If this situation changed drastically pre-war, it would be understandable that post-war, many factions and worlds would yearn for this type of political independence.

In fact, the games make no mention (to the best of my knowledge) of Confed citizens, only members. As if citizenship were reserved for a planet of origin. And then the sovereign planetary government was a member of Confed. Not the citizen of said planet. With that in mind, how could Confed legally directly tax anyone?
Dragon1 said:
In fact, the games make no mention (to the best of my knowledge) of Confed citizens, only members. As if citizenship were reserved for a planet of origin. And then the sovereign planetary government was a member of Confed. Not the citizen of said planet. With that in mind, how could Confed legally directly tax anyone?
As a general rule, a government has all the rights its subjects allow it to use - including those that its founding documents (constitution, etc.) explicitly deny it. For example, the US constitution explicitly states that the federal government has only those rights granted to it within the constitution - yet it has regularly exceeded these rights for at least a century, simply because nobody objects (not since they saw what happened the last time a bunch of states objected :p). There are many laws in the US that would have to be ruled as unconstitutional, except that nobody's ever challenged them. It's the same with every constitution-based country in the world, and probably the same with Confed, too.
Dragon1 said:
In fact, the games make no mention (to the best of my knowledge) of Confed citizens, only members. As if citizenship were reserved for a planet of origin. And then the sovereign planetary government was a member of Confed. Not the citizen of said planet. With that in mind, how could Confed legally directly tax anyone?

1) There are numerous references to citizens of the Confederation and organizations such as the Terran Confederation Citizen Awareness Council.

"As people grieve for the loss of loved ones and look to the Terran Confederation for guidance, we wish to assure all citizens that their needs will be seen to. Already we have established reconstruction management facilities on thirty planets and stations scattered throughout the affected sectors. At this time we are very positive about achieving complete damage assessment and resource allocation within forty-five days. At that time, Terran Confederation Reconstruction Officials will assemble reclamation response teams and the process can then begin in earnest. We know we shall succeed in rebuilding the lives, homes, and hopes of the citizens of the confederation as surely as we have defeated the menace which threatened them."

"The initial run has been sold out for over six months, and passengers from almost every sector are heading to meet up with a trip that costs a years' wages for the average Confederation citizen."

"How many more brave men and women must die needlessly before we begin to question how our technology is developed? I am calling for a public investigation of the Krieger facilities actions in this matter and a review of all testing procedures throughout the confederation. As a scientist, as a husband, as a decent human being, I feel it is my duty and in the interest of all citizens of the Confederation, to demand answers."

2) There is absolutely nothing illegal about a government taxing noncitizens living within its borders. If you go and apply for a job, you have to fill out tax forms that ask if you're a citizen, legal resident, alien with a work permit, etc.

Rayak continued, stating, "No citizen of the Terran Confederation should be risking their lives and others in a mad rush to cash in on the war. We stand to uphold and maintain the order, which has seen our vast civilization through two intergalactic engagements. We will not tolerate such behavior during the rebuilding phase that has only just begun. Thusly, we will not hesitate to eliminate any group who would challenge our authority. We wish to provide a level of predictable security that can only be maintained by absolute complicity with the official processes set in motion."

She added, "This is not to say that we will tolerate any such activities. Until the Confederation has announced that unrestricted travel can commence in these sectors, citizens should consider these areas to still be a hot war zone and closed for any unauthorized civilian or corporate activity. If any vessel dares to dispute our authority on this manner, we will respond with all necessary speed…and force."

Governor Cavazos stated, "It is with a heavy heart that I must report a renewed conflict with the Aliens. After careful assessment of the many reports our intelligence service has gathered over the last several weeks, it is our duty to notify the citizens of the Confederation that the war is still with us."
Thanks for the clarification.

I guess I am just wondering why the Confederation is called such when it acts more like a Federal government (as opposed to a loose association of states)? Did the TC evolve like the EU, previously the European Economic Commission, from an economic alliance of independent sovereignties to a federation of dependant states?
Well, I thought I detected a slight slap against Hillary Clinton in the book where the Kilrathi fake the peace treaty, there was something about a character that was betraying the Confederation that reminded me of her.

To answer Dragon's question, I believe that while planets of the Confederation had total authority of their own worlds, that they still belonged as a whole to the Senate and had their representatives.
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