Values/Ethics in WC

criticalmass

criticalmass

Vice Admiral
Without trying to raise the conservative/liberal debate, I sometimes wonder about the message a story, a game, or a whole concept wants to tell me.

For the WC universe, I guess it's all about honor, valor, glory, the good of many vs. the benefit of the individual - but there are some sidelines that I think are interesting.

There are the big issues like the depiction of gender, of cultural and ethnic groups, of the concept of property and liberty, Love & Hate, but also the many small issues like lying, standing up for another, cheating, taking the blame, backstabbing, being in everybody's face, boasting, forgiveness, and so on and so forth.

I'd be interested in your impressions: Is WC a moral-heavy universe?
Is it pessimistic or optimistic?
Who's the character with the most moral flaws, or the most agreeable conduct?
What values are behind all of it?
 
I think the moral changed from where in universe you are (and from person to person ofcorse). The moral is propaly diffrent at earth then another planet.
 
You can't really assign heavy values to WC because the story isn't broad enough to totally encompass what your asking.
 
I agree with Shaggy. Wing Commander (at least the first three) are a simple 'good vs. evil' premise. Things got a bit more ambitious in WCIV and with some equally ambitious interpretation, you could say it's a commentary on the level of militarism in society or the question of when do the means stop justifying the end.

Although I suppose that any moral message you draw from World War II, you could also draw from WC 1-3, since they appear very similar. Both were started when an aggressor committed an atrocity against a peaceful nation after a period of belligerance. Both were ended by the use of a non-conventional weapon resultin in catastrophic numbers of deaths. There are other parallels, but I have class in twenty minutes. :)
 
criticalmass said:
Is WC a moral-heavy universe?
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I think the Wing Commander series does an excellent job exploring the morality of war. Blair wrestling with his conscience over the destruction of Kilrah. The implications of his defection to the Border Worlds. Bear sparing the lives of Kilrathi civilians. I even remember reading a blurb in FA where Jukaga muses that had the Utara not intervened in their culture and provided them with the means of achieving space, the clans would most likely have destroyed themselves with atomic weapons (moral: space travel is the answer to their problems). These little things are one of the reasons why I find WC so appealing: it isn't just a black and white, good vs. evil shoot-em-up, there are many shades of gray, many subtle levels.
Is it pessimistic or optimistic?
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I'll vote optimistic, as even when the good guys don't win, there's always a ray of hope.
Who's the character with the most moral flaws?
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See Tolwyn Debate Thread 137.
 
Except that with Flint and Rachel in WC3 we were not given the option of choosing both of them. Thus the moral concept of monogamy was forced upon us. ;)
 
There's also a good deal of Nietzchean pondering in False Colors and WCIV. The Overman and the lesson of he who fights monsters should be careful lest he become a monster are both large themes.

Humanity has a lot of hate to swallow and start working with the Kilrathi to both species' betterment. The question is whether or not they'll manage it, in some ways.
 
I don't know if the kilrathi are so EVIL, Like the Empire is in SW. It's more like a "US vs THEM" theme. Of course they do "evil" things and they are shaped like the Japanese Empire in WW2, but They get more and more complex as the books and games appear.

Regarding optimism, the games are kinda optimistic, but the books certainly aren't.
 
WC is much more complex than a simple "US vs Them" or "Good vs Evil" theme. Even on the cartoon we have more complex issues. When it comes to moral issues, WC is much better than other stuff on the market.

You don't have to go far. The decision like using the flashpak on Ella Superbase can generate a very comple debate on the justification of means.
 
Or the drug running or piracy options in Privateer, for a smaller-scale example.

Disobeying orders in SM1(?) and torching those Fralthi Halcyon tells you to leave alone can ask some questions of military discipline, too.
 
I thought WC III was more pessimistic than the other games. In my opinion the game tried to show that Confed was at its limits and near the breaking point in the war with the Kilrathi. This was done through the infobursts and attitudes of various other pilots and crewmembers. The book helped by painting the situation even darker, for example having Locanda being hit by the bioweapons rather than allowing you to save the planet.

The story did start to swing toward the optimistic you were to escort the Behemoth to Kilrah, but after the destruction of the Behemoth I think the game swung back to pessimistic for a bit until the construction and testing of the Temblor bomb was completed.

Althought I will say that I really didn't expect the game to only allow for a losing path.
 
True, there are several issues. the interesting thing in WC4 is that, if yyou pursue a course of action, you actually get to see the consequences. For instance, if you hesitate to defect, more people will die. If you go along with Hawk and believe that ends justifies means, you become Tolwyn. If you believe that you must act "ethically" all the way, things end up more hopefull (panther's ending)... And so on.

Priv is also a great example, you are the one responsible for your actions. Piracy, bounty hunting... it's your call.
 
Edfilho said:
I don't know if the kilrathi are so EVIL, Like the Empire is in SW.
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1. You cant call someone evil just because they grew up in a warlike empire.

2. You are just pissed because they ate Angel.

3. The empire is much better then those pathetic rebel critters trying to "restore peace and freedom in the galaxy" by getting half the galaxy wiped out in useless wars. (Alderaan and its people would not have been blown up if not for the rebels.)
The empire didnt treat people that bad!
 
Dyret said:
1. You cant call someone evil just because they grew up in a warlike empire.
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Good, let's have some moral relativism here. Or not. Can't have a discussion about values without it, apparently. Anyhow, you can choose to call a warlike culture by what it really is, or be politically correct like those peacifists from Fleet Action.
 
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