The Final Tolwyn Thread (But maybe not)

Trampling on people's "rights" is what makes empires, not confederations, strong. Since the confederation is also made of aliens, and not just white people (LeHah, that was some of the funniest stuff I'd ever heard), it must support rights...or be destroyed. Therefore, it's diversity and strenght comes from it not trampling people's rights.

And quoting lines from Final Fantasy Tactics doesn't help arguements.
 
Nep: Quoting Final Fantasy Tactics is one of the smartest things a person can do! Brilliant game, probably the best one on the PS.

As for the white people thing, grab George Carlin's You Are All Diseased CD to hear more! :D
 
I don't think anyone can seriously say what Tolywn did was RIGHT. He did have good intentions, and maybe even a good idea, but it wasn't right. It wouldn't have been terrible if he kept the Black Lance just the GE superman, and didn't worry about the rest of humanity. That would have been (except for the fact that the GE supermen were bred for war and had no choice on the matter, but that's a different story)

But no, what he did wasn't right. Nobody can justify killing millions (billions?) of the people....unless of course they are Kilrathi or Pilgrims...then it's ok.
 
Originally posted by Ladiesman^
Nobody can justify killing millions (billions?) of the people....unless of course they are Kilrathi or Pilgrims...then it's ok.

"Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others"

- George Orwell, Animal Farm
 
Originally posted by LeHah
People constanly ask if Tolwyn was right. You know what I'm talking about people; but why does everyone harp on him? Everyone seemed to hate him on this board! Discuss! :)


Why he can´t rest is peace ??? :)
 
Because he started out as one of the great men in history and then he had to throw it all down the toliet by trying to wipe out most of humanity.
 
Hmm..I always thought Blair was kinda annoying actually. Especially adding in the stuff from the movies and Pilgrim Stars, he's one screwed up guy.

Maniac or Paladin are my favorite. I can't decide which I like better. I think I like Paladin a bit more, without all the movie Pilgrim stuff. Maniac is always fun.
 
Originally posted by TyeDyeBoy
Why would he want to? You're the verification that the religious people don't want getting to the public, the biggest mistake god ever made.

Someone CAN be made that stupid.

Ahem that is the biggest load of crap that I have ever heard. How is a person who is stating something that is quite logical stupid. He stated something that is the serious fault of all religions that is that there is no proof of the existance of what they believe in. So you can't claim that he is stupid just becuase he states the largest problem with your belief system. Thus the only obvious answer that I can get about why you decided to flame him was because you realized what I just said and felt the need to defend your beliefs threw an attack on him to discredit his words
 
No, what LeHah stated was that we could blame God cause we couldnt prove he DIDNT do it. If I stub my toe on a chair can I blame you cause you cant prove to me that you didnt pull the chair out?
 
I knew it!:) Do you know how much that hurts? Fortunatly I dont bruise easy.

[Edited by Supdon3 on 07-23-2001 at 01:48]
 
I'm going to throw down some thoughts.

Tolwyn is a traitor because he killed/engineered the deaths of thousands/millions of Confed citizens. These are the people that he, as a serviceman, has sworn to protect. Therefore regardless of his intentions he is a traitor and no longer a hero.

Does anyone wonder why Tolwyn would think that a genetically tinkered human race would be more likely to survive than humanity as it currently is? I mean if he was successful and humanity becomes based on a few 'superior' genes, wouldn't that make humanity more susceptible to a new type of disease or other biological weapon? After all his own gen select device could be re-calibrated specifically to attack those genes he thinks are the best.

Finally what makes Tolwyn think that humanity as it is, is unlikely to survive another war? It is undeniable fact that Confed won the Terran Kilrathi War. You could say it was a fluke. However others at this board pointed out that at the beginning Confed had a bigger fleet than the Kilrathi. At McAuliffe the Kilrathi managed to even the odds but this could easily occur to a genetically tinkered race. Secondly before the False Truce Confed had gained the edge - a more determined/aggressive government would've seized the initiative and defeated the Kilrathi soundly without recourse to last ditch attacks like Big B & T Bomb. Confed getting tricked at McAuliffe & at the False Truce negotiations demonstrate weaknesses/deficiencies remedied not with genetics, but with modifications to priorities and tactics.
As a leading admiral how could Tolwyn not realize this. If anything, Confed's survival for 40 odd years of war, and our staving off the Kilrathi armada in the BoT, despite serious handicap, proves that humanity is no push over. This is further reinforced by the fact that a hardened warrior race like the Kilrathi were unable to achieve a decisive victory for so long, despite having the 'right pyschological disposition,' cloaking devices and a willingness to use biological weapons.
 
Tolwyn began to see humanities' weaknesses, wanting peace over war to the point where they accept it blindingly, over its strenghts, and being slightly unbalanced, he decided to fix that one weakness forgetting that it would destroy its strengths as well.
 
But if Tolwyn thinks that our weakness is a pacifist nature than genetics isn't the answer. What guarantee does he have that a genetically engineered race of fitter/stronger/smarter humans will be more warlike than we are already?
 
Because he breeds only those aggressive tendencies into his superhumans. High penchants for anger and a general blood thirst. Then he just trains his men to react aggressively to most situations, and also to learn to control and use that aggressiveness to their advantage. It wouldnt do to make your soldiers into a bunch of hot heads who go charging into battle after every little thing without thinking.
 
Then again, Maniac IS the fourteenth highest ace in Confed history...and most of us fly like Maniac in the games. Just look at the discussion between Flint and Maniac in Victory Streak...who do you fly like, Flint or Maniac?

The line was "Blame yourself or God." It was quoted after the first battle of the game, when Delius (? It's been quite a while...all I really remember is enormous amounts of freustration trying to get Ramza to learn Ultima and Zodiac) kindnapped the princess.
 
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