The Behemoth in WCIII was a stupid idea

Mjr. Whoopass said:
Given the covert requirement of the Behemoth project, I would hope that I would have the good sense to be skeptical of putting a Kilrathi on a strike team destined to kill his own planet. Even if Hobbes was loyal to Confed, blowing up an entire planet that was the Kilrathi homeworld and had old friends and family living on it would be bound to cause conflict in even the most loyal defectors. Of course "loyal defector" seems to be a contradiction of terms.

Hobbes had no family. They all died when a Kilrathi commander mistook the transport they were on for a Confed ship and had it destroyed.
 
The Behemoth was not a bad idea - leaving it undefended in Kilrah for multiple bombers to take pot shots at it before anyone could respond was horrendously worse.
 
Bad design, good idea

This point has probably been touched upon, but I would like to throw in my 2 cents. The behemoth was an idea that was came to fruition lacking the potential of the original idea. Such a weapon would have the capability to end the was instantly, and would have be re-usable in the future (it's sheer size would have allowed it to be easily upgradable as new anti-fighter/anti-capship weaponry became available. It would act as an effective deterrant to aggression from other alien races for the foreseeable future. Would the nephilim really attacked a race when they have a large carrier group will the ability to erase their planet from space? Perhaps not. The behemoth would have a much greater psychological fear factor than a whole ship full of temblor bombs. Gigantic ships are always more scary than missles. The problem with the behemoth was that despite its size, it did not have the astonishing array of turrets and anti-matter cannons that it easily could have. It should have been designed to be bristling with guns, and they should have been up-and-running long before the superlaser was operational (as I am aware that at the time of it's destruction it was incomplete) The behemoth obviously had a formidable power supply for it's superlaser, and much like the concordia's phase-transit, the anti-fighter array should be able to operate even while charging the cannon. The power needed to power turrets and such would have almost certainly been an insiginificant drain on the supply. The danger approaching aship of that size should have been exponentially greater that even a concordia-sized dreadnaught. I can not see the kilrathi constructing a ship that big and not loading it with emplacements. Even just equiping it with anti-matter guns, with as light a loadout as one array of eight guns on each of the four sides of the ship would have made an approach by anything smaller than a destroyer a sure-fire way to get vaporized. The blast radius of eight anti-matter cannons would be large enough to scratch any bombers or convettes before they could get within torpedo range. And that's just without the benefit of any laser turrets. Good idea, very bad actual application of that idea. You'd think that at least one of the confed engineers would have seen the first star wars movie.
 
FleeBalls said:
You'd think that at least one of the confed engineers would have seen the first star wars movie.

Probably not. Star wars would be 600+ years old. How many old silent flicks from the 1920's have you seen?
 
PatrickJBuchanan said:
Here's why the Confederation should never have built the Behemoth:

When the Kilrathi attacked the Confederation much of the Confederation's fleet was destroyed at McAuliffe. There would have unquestionably been a military draft of the Confederation citizenry. Rather than wasting resources on one big ship (the Behemoth) that could have been easily destroyed by a Kilrathi fleet & fighter force, it would have been better to have used the resources to build more carriers and fighters to defend the Confederation worlds and then go on the offensive when ready. Furthermore, the armistice should never have been signed.

It goes back to the 'simulation' that Tolwyn referenced in THE PRICE OF FREEDOM, where it is revealed that the High COmmand knew very early on that they would not be able to win the war outright, although it seems they were on the verge of winning had they never agreed to the armistice with the Kilrathi, they could have won the war outright it appears.

As such, projects like the BEHEMOTH and other 'longshot' programs were what they had. The GE program was part of this as well, of course.
 
McGruff said:
Probably not. Star wars would be 600+ years old. How many old silent flicks from the 1920's have you seen?

How stupid a comment to make considering our media heavy society; lots of people have seen silent movies.
 
Not to mention that actors like John Wayne, who predate SW by more than a few decades, have been mentioned by people of WCU's timeframe (if with distorted records, as per the discussion between Doomsday and Bear in End Run, shortly after they get together on the Tarawa IIRC).
 
It is very possible that Star Wars has been made into something analogous to Shakesperean plays today. Very old but still well-known.

Sometimes I wonder if the Wing Commander games, etc existed in the Wing Commander canon. :>
 
Of course, the thing that makes Star Wars interesting for people today is that it's got space ships. Somehow, I don't see this fact making quite such an impact on the people of the WC universe.
 
Sometimes I wonder if the Wing Commander games, etc existed in the Wing Commander canon. :>

Wing Commander I and II do -- this is the conceit behind the WC1/2 Ultimate Strategy Guide, that it's also the hint book for a post-war "holo sim" game of the author's adventures.
 
Death said:
Not to mention that actors like John Wayne, who predate SW by more than a few decades...

Bugs Bunny is still well-known, considering that Confed pilots laughed off the insult.
 
LeHah said:
Bugs Bunny is still well-known, considering that Confed pilots laughed off the insult.

That specific one could be a case of pilots learning who Bugs Bunny is because of the Kilrathi usage.
 
One case to remember is that Tolwyn makes it clear there was not enough time to finish the defensive shields and armor of the Behemoth; nor was there time to install turrets into the weapon.

Once that was made clear, I would have had a mandatory several cruisers always on those 'week spots' as well as permanent squadrons of Arrow's and HellCats flying on those 'weak spots' areas as well; when relief comes, you send them from the Victory to relieve them and then the other squadrons return.

IT seems it would ensure you would have all the protection you need.
 
Sigmar Maximus said:
One case to remember is that Tolwyn makes it clear there was not enough time to finish the defensive shields and armor of the Behemoth; nor was there time to install turrets into the weapon.

Once that was made clear, I would have had a mandatory several cruisers always on those 'week spots' as well as permanent squadrons of Arrow's and HellCats flying on those 'weak spots' areas as well; when relief comes, you send them from the Victory to relieve them and then the other squadrons return.

The Victory itself wouldn't be big enough to block many of the holes in the Behemoth's superstructure. There weren't enough cruisers around to begin to blanket the ship. Basically, it all comes down to this: If you had time and resources to assemble all the ships necessary to cover all the Behemoth's weak points, you'd have enough time and resources to finish armoring and shielding all the weak points.
 
ChrisReid said:
The Victory itself wouldn't be big enough to block many of the holes in the Behemoth's superstructure. There weren't enough cruisers around to begin to blanket the ship. Basically, it all comes down to this: If you had time and resources to assemble all the ships necessary to cover all the Behemoth's weak points, you'd have enough time and resources to finish armoring and shielding all the weak points.

Very True. Based on the fact that the majority of the Kilrathi's Warmaking capabilities are on Kilrah, it seems that either

1) while the Behemoth was powerfull enough to destroy Kilrah, they needed to rely on stealth to actually get it into position to fire. That means there was no public announcement of this weapon, nor time to get every carrier the Confederation had to escort the Behemoth.

2) or it means that this was such a quick development that the Victory being in perfect position to take them out was part of Tolwyn's plan.

Just on a by note, do any of you believe that it was Seether whom probably secreted the Temblor Bomb into Kilrah for Blair and co to use to actually destroy the planet.
 
Sigmar Maximus said:
Just on a by note, do any of you believe that it was Seether whom probably secreted the Temblor Bomb into Kilrah for Blair and co to use to actually destroy the planet.
What possible reasons do we have to believe this? The whole temblor bomb was secret but there is no indication that that it was some kind of black op that the black lance were involved in. The operation, under paladins oversight (paladin has always had a part in covert operations throughout the WC series), after all had Angel and her squad infiltrate kilrah(and resulted in their capture and execution) were a part of the whole operation as well. (didn't they plant some kind of devices to augment the effect of the temblor bomb as well as get detailed info on the seismic makeup of the planet?) It doesn't seem likely (unless it was part of one of his regular commision assignment and not black lance) that Seether would have had any part in it, especially since Tolwyn, of whom seether was a prized asset, was pushing the behemoth project.
 
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