Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I'm working on the new ships list, and I can't place one of my references -- the Pelican-class TCS Cimino. My notes say it's in Prophecy... but I can't find any proof of that. Anyone know?
TCS Cimino - Where?
- Thread starter Bandit LOAF
- Start date
All That Remains
Spaceman
the two pelican class ships that got jumped were the TCS Barkley and the TCS Porter i believe that was the other one. i've played Prophecy about 50 times over and i never came across that ship before.
SabreAce
Rear Admiral
The TCS Cimino appears in mission 1 in the sim - it's the transport you find at Nav 1, under attack by a trio of Dralthi, with a couple of Tigersharks providing escort. It jumps out after the last Dralthi is destroyed. The TCS Marburg that Quarto mentions is the second transport that jumps in at Nav 1 (you hear the distress call while you and a pair of Piranhas are dealing with a few more Dralthi at another nav point before heading back to Nav 1 to save the day).
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Great, thanks. I already had the others (Porter, Marburg, Barkley and Hrai Hhallas) identified.
Here's the current document: https://www.wcnews.com/loaf/newshipslist.doc
Here's the current document: https://www.wcnews.com/loaf/newshipslist.doc
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Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Well, that's exactly what the citations are for. Look for the name ship of the class and there should be a notation about the name. In the case of the Tallahassee: OOGWC3, p.139: “Defend friendly heavy cruiser against…”
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
The list's looking good. A few comments, though:
- TCS Alcatraz - Personally, I don't like the idea of labelling the Alcatraz as a "Prison Ship". All we know about the Alcatraz is that she's a Waterloo-class cruiser, and that she's being used to transport prisoners. To call her a prison ship goes against common sense - if the Waterloos are so important that some of them (the Gettysburg) are regarded as carriers, it seems unlikely to the extreme that any Waterloo would be used exclusively as a prison ship.
- TCS Beowulf - the name seems to have disappeared somehow - it just says "TCS - Unknown".
- TCS Morgan - Ajax-class? Something strange going on here, given that there are only two TCS Ajaxes (one an Achilles-class, the other a Tallahassee).
- TCS Trygvie Lie - this is an odd one. The ship's name is obviously canon the way you spelled it... but the ship is named after Trygve Lie (...whose name is apparently pronounced Trygvie, hence Origin's spelling mistake). All things considered, I think in this case Origin's intentions should be considered more valid than what actually ended up in the game.
- TCS Tango - The Intrepid was named differently under Confed flag, so wouldn't it be safe to assume that the Tango also wasn't named the Tango?
- TCS Tango (again) - In the BW section, this should be the BWS Tango. Also, I'm not sure if the Intrepid & Tango still classify as heavy destroyers. Doesn't the game refer to the Intrepid as a carrier?
- TCS San Jacinto (in the FRLS section) - this should be the FRLS San Jacinto.
- TCS Alcatraz - Personally, I don't like the idea of labelling the Alcatraz as a "Prison Ship". All we know about the Alcatraz is that she's a Waterloo-class cruiser, and that she's being used to transport prisoners. To call her a prison ship goes against common sense - if the Waterloos are so important that some of them (the Gettysburg) are regarded as carriers, it seems unlikely to the extreme that any Waterloo would be used exclusively as a prison ship.
- TCS Beowulf - the name seems to have disappeared somehow - it just says "TCS - Unknown".
- TCS Morgan - Ajax-class? Something strange going on here, given that there are only two TCS Ajaxes (one an Achilles-class, the other a Tallahassee).
- TCS Trygvie Lie - this is an odd one. The ship's name is obviously canon the way you spelled it... but the ship is named after Trygve Lie (...whose name is apparently pronounced Trygvie, hence Origin's spelling mistake). All things considered, I think in this case Origin's intentions should be considered more valid than what actually ended up in the game.
- TCS Tango - The Intrepid was named differently under Confed flag, so wouldn't it be safe to assume that the Tango also wasn't named the Tango?
- TCS Tango (again) - In the BW section, this should be the BWS Tango. Also, I'm not sure if the Intrepid & Tango still classify as heavy destroyers. Doesn't the game refer to the Intrepid as a carrier?
- TCS San Jacinto (in the FRLS section) - this should be the FRLS San Jacinto.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The briefing refers to both the Bastille and the Alcatraz as being 'prison ships'. That, plus their prison-specific names suggests to me that they do a different job than ordinary Waterloos and Clydesdales.
I do need to add a notation about the Gettysburg, though.
Caught that one already - and for what it's worth, I narrowed the Beowulf down to being a destroyer of some sort with a quote from the movie novelization.
Sorry, that should read 'Achilles class Fighter Transport', referring to the fact that the transport Suffolk, fighter transport Morgan and destroyer Ajax are all the same ship.
I do agree, but I'm not sure I want to change the name from what's listed in the game. Would an annotation be reasonable enough? (The TCS Kobi, from the movie, has the same problem - it should be Kobe, despite being spelled 'Kobi' in the script, the subtitles and the novel).
I agree with you and will also remove the TCS Johns Hopkins.
Well, that's a good point, but unfortunately it also means I have to do something about the Tango's alternative class...
For the record, I've never enjoyed focusing on the 'conversion' of the Intrepid. It's something that's referenced only in the script - and fans have taken it much further than I think anyone ever intended (remember when everyone insisted that the Intrepid was two destroyers glued together?). Clearly, something was done -- but it may have just been expanding the existing fighter carrying capacity of the Durango-class...
Fixed! Thanks!
I've uploaded a new version with these changes (as well as some others).
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
Bandit LOAF said:Well, that's a good point, but unfortunately it also means I have to do something about the Tango's alternative class...
For the record, I've never enjoyed focusing on the 'conversion' of the Intrepid. It's something that's referenced only in the script - and fans have taken it much further than I think anyone ever intended (remember when everyone insisted that the Intrepid was two destroyers glued together?). Clearly, something was done -- but it may have just been expanding the existing fighter carrying capacity of the Durango-class...
It's been a while since I've read TPoF, but wasn't it mentioned that the hangar was mounted [insert bad "Beavis and Butthead" joke here] on the underside of the Intrepid?
As for the alternate classification, it's mentioned (I believe) that the Intrepid maintained its 8 torpedo tubes from its previous classification, in the capship battle with the Vesuvius.
Or maybe I should just shut up and find my copy of TPoF to re-read.
Bandit LOAF said:
IIRC correctly, theres a TCS Beowulf in WC2, its the Concordia's escort that gets destroyed when they jump into Gynedd near the beginning of the game, I could be wrong though.
Delance said:
The Landreich names their ships after battles for freedom or something like that, it gets mentioned in End Run.
Haesslich
Spaceman
The TCS Beowulf does appear in Gwynedd 2, when you get the comm message from the Concordia. She was the Concordia's escort, destroyed on her last jump prior to her arrival at Gwynedd, later replaced by the TCS William Tell. Can't remember if they ever mentioned the Beowulf's ship class, but her replacement was a Gilgamesh-class destroyer.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Well, that's fair enough... though I still don't like itBandit LOAF said:
.Of course, if we were to speculate, we'd have to conclude that the Beowulf is almost certainly a Gilgamesh... but that would go against the purpose and intentions of this list.
Yeah, I guess it's better not to completely change it - the annotations that you put in are fine.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I think they say 'slung underneath', which really just creates more questions than it does answers, given what the ship looks like in the game. (Note to self for later - the Intrepid should be a *Light* Carrier...)
The San Jacinto would be named after the battle, not the Saint - just like the USS San Jacinto: http://www.sanjacinto.navy.mil/
(That said, the Landreich doesn't come into play; it was the cruiser Kruger took from Richards, so it was a ship that Confed named...)
That's correct, though I believe it's just reffered to as being an escort ship. The Beowulf shows up in the movie novel because (as one of the footnotes notes) the movie novel was written based on the belief that the TCS Concordia in the script was the TCS Concordia from WC2... I suggested the TCS Beowulf be referenced to tie those two together (there are a *lot* of things like this in the movie novel - give it a chance outside of the movie!)
The Landreich weren't created until Fleet Action. What you're thinking of is from False Colors, though -- cruisers are named after "military men who ended up in exile" and carriers are named after declarations of independence.
Oh, I don't *like* it, but I don't see another reasonable choice.
The degree to which speculation can be justified was the problem with the old document, I think.