[SPOILERS] Star Wars movie thread... [Don't read this thread if you haven't seen the movie yet]

Hunter_13

Commodore
The word round these parts is that Johnson turned in a draft with an apology for being 'too out there' and that the powers that be loved it and told him to run with it. Take what you will from that! I would not expect to see a direct rehash of the OT going forward.
As long as it isn't a rehash of the prequels, I'll be fine. Though it seems we're off to a great start. So glad they didn't let Hayden Crybabysen reprise his role as Anakin for the part that was cut from TFA.
 

Jdawg

Commodore
As long as it isn't a rehash of the prequels, I'll be fine. Though it seems we're off to a great start. So glad they didn't let Hayden Crybabysen reprise his role as Anakin for the part that was cut from TFA.
have a feeling he might show up somewhere, I have seen him in other things and he is not terrible, everybody in the prequels were pretty bad even sam jackson
 
Back when waiting for the movie, I was thinking it might be good idea to kill Luke, Leia and Han in each film of the trilogy. I even had a storyline in mind, with Han dying in VII (nailed it!), then his son falling to dark side (wrong order, but close enough) and killing Luke in VIII (may happen) and eventually in IX Leia would sacrifice herself to bring him back among heroes.
I kind of hope it goes like that, Luke and Leia die in the two films. However I think now there can only be one end to Kylo Ren: Vader replay. You can't leave Han and Leia's son as evil monster, he must redeem himself. Yet, after all he's done, he can't just walk away and be forgiven; he must die heroically. So Ren dies killing Snoke - there, I spoiled IX ending for you. (Unless Ren dies in end of XIII, trying to kill Snoke.)
I can buy Han being bumped off, but I'm sorry, you simply cannot kill off Luke Skywalker & Princess Leia as well. These films can't simply appeal to us older more cynical fans, who constantly want dark & edgy. They have to strike a balance to appealing to a younger generation as well. And killing off Three iconic, main characters in all three films is too much, even for this cynic. I can sort of see the reasoning behind the idea of Luke making a noble Obi Wan style sacrifice in the third film, but now they've killed off Han, they've sort of used their 'shock value' card already, so killing off Skywalker would be pushing it. And killing off Princess Leia as well? Eyroll inducing.
 

Jdawg

Commodore
I can buy Han being bumped off, but I'm sorry, you simply cannot kill off Luke Skywalker & Princess Leia as well. These films can't simply appeal to us older more cynical fans, who constantly want dark & edgy. They have to strike a balance to appealing to a younger generation as well. And killing off Three iconic, main characters in all three films is too much, even for this cynic. I can sort of see the reasoning behind the idea of Luke making a noble Obi Wan style sacrifice in the third film, but now they've killed off Han, they've sort of used their 'shock value' card already, so killing off Skywalker would be pushing it. And killing off Princess Leia as well? Eyroll inducing.
well non of the actors are spring chickens and personally if fischer is going to keep mailing in her performances I want her gone
 

Aginor

Vice Admiral
My 2 cents about the movie (saw it yesterday):

Overall I liked it. It felt very much in line with the original trilogy.
I liked the performance of all the new actors (although Adam Driver was too much like Hayden Christensen in some scenes), and I must confess I am a bit sad that indeed Finn doesn't seem to be Force sensitive in the end.
I was shocked by the death of Han, it was nicely done. I almost suspected Chewie would be gone as well, shooting Kylo Ren in the face, and then a moon would drop on him or something like that. I am glad they didn't do that though.

Things that bothered me a bit:
1. Why the hell are all leading members of the First Order guys that seem very young? Where are the cool older characters, people having the same kind of charisma like Grand Moff Tarkin or somone similar. GENERAL Hux' actor is 32? Really?
2. Carrie Fisher's less than stellar performance. For me it wasn't exactly bad, but not exactly good either.
3. No big fights in space, capships fighting each other and so on. I would have liked to see that.
4. The scene showing off Poe's skills in the X-Wing. Half the kills in one scene would have sufficed.
My internal running commentary during that shot:
- Cool.
- Great Pilot!
- Yeah!
- WOW another one!!
- Uh, I got it. He's good.
- It is getting old.
- YOU CAN STOP NOW.
5. And the most important one: The movies in themselves should make sense. The audience should have a chance to understand what is happening. I don't care that I don't know how so many Star Destroyer wrecks landed on Jakku, but if you come from the original trilogy you think: "EHH??? Resistance??? What the fuck happened, I thought they won?? And WTF how could those First Order guys build that DS3 thing without anyone noticing??". I don't want to have to read a book so I can understand what happens in the movie I am about to see. They should have just taken a bit more time to explain it.

Cringe-Worthy moments:
- The destruction of the "Republic" (WTF five planets are the Republic? And they can be seen with the naked eye from the super secret resistance hideout? REALLY?)
They should stop destroying planets, it is getting ridiculous. You can demonstrate mighty dangerous stuff other than destroying planets.
The weapon itself was really meh. The Death Stars were already ridiculous but they decided to one-up them. And they were destroyed with basically the same tactic as all the other ones.
STOP BUILDING DEATH STARS!
Without that stupid DS3 thing the movie wouldn't have felt that much like a remake and more like a sequel. I would have liked that 200% better.


Huh. Now this post reads as though I didn't like the movie. I liked it a lot, really.
What makes me really sad though is that they basically steamrolled over many many things I liked about the EU. They chose to change the whole setting, basically making it impossible to even pretend some of the EU stuff that doesn't contradict the new story happened anyway. Things we have "known" for 30 years are just gone. They never existed. The Jedi Academy on Yavin IV, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, the whole New Republic basically. All gone. :(
 

Jdawg

Commodore
I agree with you that JJ should have left in some of the scenes explaining what the first order and new republic was, it is in the books, but I agree the EU should expand the universe and not cover plot pts from the movie.

once again though the empire and the rebellion after return of the jedi reached a cease fire and a cold war started. the rebellion than formed the new republic and set up a government, and the empire eventually folded into the first order. at the time of the force awakens the new republic is actually the much stronger force in the galaxy as bandit pointed out. Leia suspecting that the first order are up to something forms the resistance and the official line from the new republic is they are not funding the resistance at all, but we know this is not true. Now as far as the attack goes I took it as wiping out the entire new republic fleet bc of a C-3po line saying the fleet could no longer protect the Resistance, but bandit loaf pointed out to me that they just bombed the capital planets much like nuking Washington DC so there are still other republic systems but they would be in disarray bc all the leaders are gone. so in that case even if the starkiller was a rehash and a death star 3, it was at least a deathstar that did real damage and accomplished a serious goal.

As far as the young generals I thought it made some sense, everyone from the old empire dies off and its about 30 yrs later so a lot of them would be young. I really like the actor who played hux they should have given him more to do. As far as kylo to me he is what Anikan was suppose to be. The thing I love about kylo is when you first meet him he is a badass and looks like an equal to darth vader, but as the movie goes on you see he is just a poser and a wannabe, he wears a mask not bc he needs to but be bc he thinks it looks cool, he is unsure of himself, not calm, and a basket case. to me he is the most interesting villain ever in a star wars movie, and as much as people say this movie is a remake, he is something wholly different and original in this universe
 

Aginor

Vice Admiral
I totally agree with your last paragraph.
It was reverse, and that was cool. He is a dark side guy who is tempted by the light side. He FEARS he will go to the light side. He even murders his own father to finally rid himself of this temptation (I actually think he hadn't planned to do so).
As for his character: He is pretending, and actually hiding behind the mask because he KNOWS he is not as cool or strong as Vader whom he is basically impersonating. That's just great. I loved it. I think it was too visible for the audience though, destroying consoles and so on was a bit over the top for me. But it was okay, I actually like it a lot in hindsight.
 

Jdawg

Commodore
I totally agree with your last paragraph.
It was reverse, and that was cool. He is a dark side guy who is tempted by the light side. He FEARS he will go to the light side. He even murders his own father to finally rid himself of this temptation (I actually think he hadn't planned to do so).
As for his character: He is pretending, and actually hiding behind the mask because he KNOWS he is not as cool or strong as Vader whom he is basically impersonating. That's just great. I loved it. I think it was too visible for the audience though, destroying consoles and so on was a bit over the top for me. But it was okay, I actually like it a lot in hindsight.
exactly and he is also not near as powerful as vader or any sith, it is just that he is the only force user around bc luke is hiding so he seems really powerful. snoke to me is just using him to get to his uncle luke, and has propped him up as something he is not. so when he meets rey and sees there are others with power equal to or greater than his own, it scares the shit out of him. to me one of the best scenes in the movie is the mind battle between kylo and rey, so much shown with very little dialogue.
 

Hunter_13

Commodore
have a feeling he might show up somewhere, I have seen him in other things and he is not terrible, everybody in the prequels were pretty bad even sam jackson
Valid point, but I thought Liam and Ewan did well with a bad script. I can almost hear it in their tones as they say their lines; "can you believe I have to say this?"
 

Hunter_13

Commodore
- The destruction of the "Republic" (WTF five planets are the Republic? And they can be seen with the naked eye from the super secret resistance hideout? REALLY?)
They should stop destroying planets, it is getting ridiculous. You can demonstrate mighty dangerous stuff other than destroying planets.
The weapon itself was really meh. The Death Stars were already ridiculous but they decided to one-up them. And they were destroyed with basically the same tactic as all the other ones.
STOP BUILDING DEATH STARS!
I'd like to see a serious study made on what happens to a star system when entire planets are removed from the gravitational balance. Excellent point.
 

Jdawg

Commodore
Valid point, but I thought Liam and Ewan did well with a bad script. I can almost hear it in their tones as they say their lines; "can you believe I have to say this?"
amen brother everyone looked lost and confused, its pretty funny. and this has been a criticism of george' direction for forever. Alec aka original obi wan had an interview where he was saying he had no idea what was going on half the time in a new hope, and it shows in his performance, the actor looks totally confused and uninterested in anything as he wanders around the death star, its one reason I rank new hope so low
 

Aginor

Vice Admiral
I'd like to see a serious study made on what happens to a star system when entire planets are removed from the gravitational balance. Excellent point.
Well, they aren't. Their debris has the same mass as the original planet.

It is hard to explain, because in Star Wars such a thing as physics apperently is pretty much nonexistant whenever the director wants to show something cool.
In real life, even if you manage to get enough energy into a planet to actually break it apart (whatever that means, it is like breaking apart a drop of water) it would most likely stay where it is, and form back to a sphere. It would be destroyed for all practical purposes, but it just.... no, not like in Star Wars. Even if you, like, disintegrate it to a gas cloud, the gas cloud would in most cases just stay where it is.

But back to Star Wars, which has nothing to do with real physics:
Even with the premise that it is actually possible I think it is so much over the top that it becomes pointless. Why the hell should they destroy core worlds of the universe. They say again and again that they take their name pretty literally. Order. They see themselves as the force of order that stands against the chaos of the republic. A D&D player might call most of them "lawful evil". They worked 30 years or so on their plan to rebuild the empire or something along those lines. The Imperials and the First Order are fascists in the original sense, not insane mass murderers (EDIT: Please note that it is possible to be both). They want control. power. ORDER. If they commit mass murder it follows their strange way of thinking that it is for the best.
Why should they destroy those core worlds? They should have built a fleet, or perhaps a weapon to destroy a fleet. Destroy the whole fleet of the Republic, imagine Nazis shooting a nuke into 1000 plane bomber raid in WW2 to keep those allies off them. THAT would have been cool. (EDIT: For the movie not in real life).

It kind of made sense for the Imperials in ANH to destroy Alderaan, they just didn't care about that planet because it wasn't that important for them. They controlled most of the galaxy at that point.
But in TFA it is.... meh. I don't like that same super weapon all over again, especially if it doesn't make sense. PLUS it somewhat diminishes the original trilogies and their Death Star, the "ultimate weapon". So I don't like it from a plot point of view either.
 

Hunter_13

Commodore
Well, they aren't. Their debris has the same mass as the original planet.
You're assuming that the mass is still there, and not converted into energy or spread out into the system. The gravitational pull of each body affects all of the other bodies in the system. Even if the mass was still there, it would be spread out, and not affecting the rest of the system as a cohesive sphere, as it had before it was destroyed.

I don't think it would "just stay there". It [debris] would likely spread out, get caught in orbit around the next nearest body with gravitational pull on it. If it gets blown apart, there's nothing behind it to create a gravitational force to draw it back in, and with no friction...
 
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Aginor

Vice Admiral
It depends on how far it is blown apart I guess. In many cases the parts would be at pulling each other pretty strongly. It is complex...

And converting it to energy.... well, that would be REALLY bad for everybody near.
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
has anybody else heard the crazy theory that rey is a clone formed from luke's hand
I have, though in not sure I like it more or less than the idea of her being Luke's daughter. It did though fit into the fact that the saber rey uses is actually Anakin's, and the same one that Luke lost on Bespin.
 

-danr-

Vice Admiral
I just can't decide if I like it. Main reason being, as Q points out - it's not a good starting point for any of those who haven't seen the originals, but in some ways it's like it's trying so hard to be a reboot...but it can't be because it explicitly calls itself a sequel, and unlike sequels, reboots have no memory of what came before.

...but the recycling of backstory heavily pissed me off right there in the cinema.

Droid containing important info discovered by chance on desert world by force sensitive Jedi-to-be.

Villain with black mask and voice changer is villainous...but is by no means a Vader, his squeaky nasal voice made me cringe. Hate him already, for all the wrong reasons.

Another Death Star.

...that is aimed at the Rebel base planet, and has to be destroyed just in time.

Solo takes care of the shield, Sullustian Nien Nunb (who flew the Falcon alongside Lando)is once again involved in the assault on said Death Star planet thing.

There's a trench run.

All this has me fuming as I type this. Why? Just why? We've seen it, we wanted, no needed something new.

Then come all the questions. Where did the New Order get all that Empire gear from? Who funds them? How have they got so many men?

Why do the resistance exist? Why not the militaries of the Republic?

Then there's the good stuff...it felt like Star Wars of old. Han and Chewie were superb, seeing the Falcon again made my spine chill. Han's chemistry with Leia. Nien Nunb, Admiral Ackbar.
 
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