Size of the Confederation and Kilrathi territories.

Lesson #2: If you contradict yourself, admit the contradiction and either rework your argument, work around it, or otherwise address the matter. When you post that distance doesn't matter, and that average speed doesn't really matter when it comes to something like a jump drive, then go on to use distances as a way to justify the 'average speed a jump drive lets you cross space', there had BETTER be a good excuse.
 
Yeah its just pointless to argue the inconsistencies in the WC movie what with the insane accent changes, the total change in ship aesthetics, the technology thats ten years too early, the total shift in character personal and interpersonal relationships between Blair/Angel, Blair/Maniac,Blair/Tolwyn,Blair/Paladin,Tolwyn/Blairs dad, the fact that Confed was supposedly unprepared for war with the Cats despite the fact that they had to launch TWO fleets against the pilgrims just a few years prior to hostlities with the Kilrathi.


I like the Wing Commander movie but Chris Roberts obviously took some liberties to try to make the movie more appealing to the average movie goer, I think that the non-canonical elements he added made the film bettter and more compelling and in my opinion he was right to do so because it in no way damaged how I enjoy wingcommander as a whole.
 
I'm going to reply to your post anyway, though doing so is probably silly given your complete failure to respond to the Skipper issues above (and, of course, given the sheer idiocy of making these vauge claims *again* lecture about why that just isn't bright.)

These first two are 'seems reasonable!' arguments - they seem reasonable until you put half an ounce of thought into them.

Yeah its just pointless to argue the inconsistencies in the WC movie what with the insane accent changes,
Click to expand...

Yes, the hired a British woman to hire a Belgian character. While this is a perfectly normal practice (Patrick Stewart, anyone?), it sounds like a semi-reasonable complaint on its face.

BUT! What you're comparing this offensive "accent" to is HAVING A TEXAN DISGUISE HER DRAWL WITH A FAKE FRENCH ACCENT! We're not looking at some incredible pantheon of French actresses that the evil Saffron Burrows has interrupted... we're talking about a game that had one of its programmers make up a cartoony (and completely unauthentic) accent.

the total change in ship aesthetics,
Click to expand...

Great, but again it's a made up claim created specifically to created to discredit the movie... and it ignores the many other 'acceptable' products that change the look of ships (and characters). This has been repeated ad nauseum in this thread and you haven't been able to address it: why are Super Wing Commander, Wing Commander Academy, the various internal game designs that contradict eachother or their manuals, etc. okay when the movie is not?

"Ship aesthetics" is a silly claim because it's not something that's *ever* been enforced. It's 'wrong' here because you don't like the movie, not because you have an actual issue with it.

the technology thats ten years too early,
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I'm not really sure what this is in reference to. You'll have to - gasp, I know it's the death knell of argument in cases like this - be specific.

the total shift in character personal and interpersonal relationships between Blair/Angel, Blair/Maniac,Blair/Tolwyn,Blair/Paladin,Tolwyn/Blairs dad,
Click to expand...

These range from silly (the idea of Maniac and Blair attending the Academy and being friends comes from many earlier sources) to absolutely idiotic (we'd never even heard of Blair's dad before the movie.

Blair in the original game didn't interact with characters *at all*. He listened to them tell him about tactics. Letting him talk to them is not a contradiction. You have created a scenario in your brain that Blair being friends with Paladin or in a squadron commanded by Angel contradicts. You need to let this go - it's not a contradiction if the thing it's contradicting is your own assumption.

the fact that Confed was supposedly unprepared for war with the Cats despite the fact that they had to launch TWO fleets against the pilgrims just a few years prior to hostlities with the Kilrathi.
Click to expand...

And here's a good example of your personal judgement getting in the way of actual thought. Who says Confed was 'unprepared for war'? A tie in novel by someone who never even played the games. Who says Confed fought a small civil war? Chris Roberts, the guy in charge of the series (actually, Dr. Forstchen also references such fights in Action Stations, but that is not germain to this point.)

You're picking a novel over something written, directed, produced, etc. by Chris Roberts because you like it more. That's not remotely objective.
 
I guess it all comes down to the fact that ORIGIN AND ROBERTS said so. I don't like the movie, I don't like pilgrins, so on, so forth. But unfortunately, they are officially part of the continuity.

Like midichlorians and vader's NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I'm not really sure what this is in reference to. You'll have to - gasp, I know it's the death knell of argument in cases like this - be specific.
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At a guess, the "10 years early" tech to which he's referring is cloaking.

Which, of course, isn't even correct, since the Strakha that destroyed the Tiger's Claw hit not during the main events of WC2, set in 2665 (or thereabouts, not sure on the exact times off the top of my head), but 10 years earlier.
 
Death said:
At a guess, the "10 years early" tech to which he's referring is cloaking.

Which, of course, isn't even correct, since the Strakha that destroyed the Tiger's Claw hit not during the main events of WC2, set in 2665 (or thereabouts, not sure on the exact times off the top of my head), but 10 years earlier.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Strakha show up in early 2656... and, of course, there's the "stealth" fighter from Wing Commander Academy in 2654.

Still, he can't possibly be talking about cloaking, because he already tried and failed at making that argument. There's a big postclump a few units back where I hung him out to dry with quotes from the Handbook -- if he still had an issue with cloaking, he'd have replied to that instead of vaugely whining.
 
The missiles are a new type, designated
Skipper. They're too big to carry aboard fighters, so they'll be launched
from capital ships."
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"The confirmation only came in from outsystem yesterday. One of General
Taggart's resources finally gave us the full specs on the weapon . . . for
what it's worth."
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"You haven't heard the really bad news, either," Rollins put in. "These
Skipper missiles carry cloaking devices, so they'll be damned hard to track.
And as for the warheads . . . well, we might as well not have the specs at
all. There's no counter for those bugs
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Blair's nod was sober. "So we can't let them get any missiles through
to the planet," he said. He looked from Eisen to Rollins. "But how do we
stop cloaked missiles? Hell, I didn't think the targeting system on a
missile could handle cloaked flight. Everything I ever saw said you need a
pilot to handle a bird when it's under cloak."
Click to expand...

"According to the specs, the Skipper doesn't stay under cloak all the
time," Eisen said. "It drops out of cloak every few seconds to update its
flight profile. So they can be tracked . . . but only intermittently."
Click to expand...

Uhm I think these quotes from the WC3 novel show that the Skipper missle itself was a pretty novel (ogh what a bad pun!) concept, either that or Blair totally forgot about his run in with one when he was posted on the Claw.So how exactly have I been hung out to dry?

That being said I was wrong about the Strakha whilst it was mass produced it still wasn't a common item in the cats arsenal,
 
You were 'hung out to dry' because you posted more vauge nonsense about accents instead of replying to my post (which you've now managed to do again.)

No one is claiming that the two Skippers are exactly the same missile -- heck, clearly they have different designations.

The K459-C is a long range weapon with the yield of a torpedo... and the YM-13A is a short range weapon with the yield of a CSM.

The missile seen in Wing Commander III is, as Eisen claims, "a new type of cloaked missile" -- but it's not the *only* type of cloaked missile.
 
From the WC3
I didn't think the targeting system on a
missile could handle cloaked flight. Everything I ever saw said you need a
pilot to handle a bird when it's under cloak."
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This quote kinda shows that to Blair the idea of ANY unmanned (or unkatted) object moving under power in space and under cloak is a recent developement and I think that counts missles and torpedoes.
 
Paddybhoy said:
From the WC3

This quote kinda shows that to Blair the idea of ANY unmanned (or unkatted) object moving under power in space and under cloak is a recent developement and I think that counts missles and torpedoes.
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Note that Confed alone has employed two types of cloak by this point - in Armada, we see the Shroud cloaking device on the Wraith, while the Excalibur and Prophecy fighters have the Blackfish-style full cloak. The Shroud was sensor-only, IIRC, while Blackfish-style cloaks (the type Confed was trying to reverse-engineer from the Strakha) were full cloaks which did visual and sensor cloaking; these were the ones which seem to have been fully employed on the new type of Skipper, which made tracking them difficult for pilots - they couldn't even depend on visuals for these UNLESS they were there as they uncloaked, whereas the WCM Skippers, IIRC, weren't that fully cloaked.

At least with a Shroud-type device, you could've used the visible light bandwidth to do some of your navigation, at least combined with a decent computer which could do 'dead-reckoning' on a constant basis, keeping the missile on target. With the full cloaks of the Strakha and the WC3 Skippers, the AI couldn't apparently handle that job through the narrow sensor window which was opened up by way of necessity, which meant it had to do a full uncloak to check its position before cloaking again and going on the next leg of its run.
 
also. correct me if im wrong. but i seem to remember that all the skipper missile did in the movie was cut out it's engines for a moment and coasted then lit it's engines again to make course adjustments
 
Paddybhoy said:
From the WC3

This quote kinda shows that to Blair the idea of ANY unmanned (or unkatted) object moving under power in space and under cloak is a recent developement and I think that counts missles and torpedoes.
Click to expand...

... but the targetting system of the SKipper *doesn't* handle cloaked flight -- it decloaks to lock. You're quoting out of context - in the novel, Blair says the line you've quoted in response to Rollins' implication that the new missiles *stay* cloaked... *then*, Eisen explains that they don't.
 
I used to gripe a lot about this skipper thing, then I got to the simple conclusion that it isn't of ANY importance. That would not be reason enough to issue a veredict concerning the movie's canon status. It is too small, too silly. LEt go. Please.
 
Corsair(pilot) said:
Hmmm, I don't remember this at all... And the last time I played Armada was a few days ago...
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My apologies - my mind confused the WC3 Shroud with something earlier.. and I need to stop riting these till I get more rest. G'night.
 
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