Question for WC war vets...

I humbly apologize for my fault. But what is SWC? Super Wing Commander? I do not own that (nor do I own KS :( ), so I was misleaded by those so similar pilots in WC1 and WC3 manuals. Still this is no excuse for my failure, if you want I will commit Zu'kara :)
But EW are we talking about the same ships? My WC3 manual states that the Vaktoht has 200cm of shield and 100cm of armour, while the Thunderbolt has 250cm of shield and 120/100cm armour. And if you count the weapons strenth together the Thunderbolt has slightly more powerful weapons:
Vaktoth: 1*70 (Tachyon) 2*67 (Plasma) 2*30 (Ion)= 264
Thunderbolt: 2*67 (Plasma9 2*35 (Meson)2*32 (Photon)= 268
And the rear Mass Driver is stronger than the Vaktoth's Meson Basters, although I think Meson Blasters are to be preferred as turret weapons due to their longer range.
Did I get sth wrong again?
 
Vaktoh class heavy fighter:
Front Shield 250 cm
Rear Shield 250 cm
Front Armor 130 cm
Rear Armor 120 cm
Right/Left Armor 130 cm
 
acording to victory streak the vaktoth had 20cm less fore/aft armor than the thud, and 50cm less shields, as well as 50 fewer kps on max afterburner, and has 5 fewer dps in both Yaw and role and 4 fewer total forward penetration for guns while it's only advantage was 5 dps more in pitch, and 25 more rear penetration (turret)
 
According to the WCIII novel, there's a point on the Vaktoth's shields where they're particularly weak.:)
 
Their flaw is in their flying pattern... they turn their front to you, fire away, then turn around, come back and repeat. In two or three passes, you've got Vaktoth pieces floating by you. Well, at least on Ace... I'm not good enough at WC3 or 4 (One hit kill from missiles! Argh!) to fly at max difficulty.
 
Originally posted by Saturnyne
In two or three passes, you've got Vaktoth pieces floating by you. Well, at least on Ace... I'm not good enough at WC3 or 4 (One hit kill from missiles! Argh!) to fly at max difficulty.
Click to expand...

HEY!! Important question here: WHAT is the REAL difficulty level, the one that is "EQUAL" for both friends and foes...

Let me explain: in rookie, there are practically no missiles fired at you, and in a few shots, you can destroy any fighter existing in the game, because YOU are the strongest...

In Nightmare, you probably blow up after a few shots right? (whoooo, never tried it... I'm too chickenshit :))

So my question is: what is the "normal" level, the level at which all energy gun bursts do a certain amount of damage, and that level is the same for you AND your enemies? Same for missiles...
 
Well, the default is Ace... so it's probably that, or the one after it, if there is a difficulty between Ace and the max. I don't remember right now. But I suppose it's Ace. There are no pluses or minuses for armor or shields or weapons between the Terran and Kilrathi ships.
 
In WC3 and WC4 between "Ace" and "Nightmare" are the levels "Hard" and "Crazy". But somehow I found the difficulty "Hard" easier than "Ace" because the enemy did not use the afterburner as often as in "Ace".
In WCP there is only one skill between "Ace" an "Nightmare":
"Hero" but it has the advantage that it is really more difficult than "Ace".
And all my strategy guides to WC3/WC4/WCP state that "Ace" is where both sides are equally treated (well the cats have the inferior ships but they are not pushed up or down compared to their "normal" stats).
I was really astonished how in WC3 on the level "Crazy" and higher the enemy's armor began to regenerate. I shot a Vaktoth to red rear armor, then it evaded me for some time and in the meantime its armor level changed from red to yellow and then to normal. Now that really sucked.

[Edited by Mekt-Hakkikt on 02-27-2001 at 04:41]
 
Hey, EW I think I found the source you quoted concerning the Vaktoth. My WCP strategy guide confirms your statistics (only the shield strength is given as 260cm) but were we not talking about WC3? Well, it has been some time since we discussed this so I think it does not matter anymore. I was just curious if the English WC3 manual had different stats than my German one.
 
Ofcourse are the Vaktoth stats in WCP other then in WC3. Better shields, armor, weapons. Maybe that's why the cat's were defeated so quick. They used all "bad" ships back home, and all the new in the front just to impress us...

LOL
 
Originally posted by Mekt-Hakkikt

I was really astonished how in WC3 on the level "Crazy" and higher the enemy's armor began to regenerate. I shot a Vaktoth to red rear armor, then it evaded me for some time and in the meantime its armor level changed from red to yellow and then to normal. Now that really sucked.
Click to expand...

See, that's just wrong...

I mean, for me a "higher difficulty level" should be that the AI of the enemy is better or something like that, meaning they fly better, have varying battle tactics... the such.

Instead, they just are "magically" stronger than you, their shields regenerate faster, their armor "reappears", hell, they probably have an infinite missile load... :(
 
I guess it is easier to program stronger ships than to increase AI.
I think that is also the reason why the Kilrathi and Bugs always appear in superior numbers. it is easier to thro a lot of garbage at you than to make a few smart pilots with good ships.
 
Actually yes. It IS easier to program a more powerful ship. Computers or AI, which is ultimately still only a function of the computer, will only do what it's programmed to do. It only puts out what you put in. Being able to program a smart AI, is complex, difficult, and the program would eat a tremendous amount of space. I've hung around the robotics labs in school long enough to know how frustrating it can be to program a logic structure. Although it's possible to program a computer with a set of instructions to make it accomplish complex tasks, it's not so easy to make it perform creative variations of these tasks, and ultimately, the structure can become predictable. Likewise, it cannot learn, except what you input into the system.

Same thing with video games. Languages like PROLOG (programmable logic) were created to attempt to give robots a semblance of "fuzzy logic", but there has only been limited success, and the program files are huge.
 
Yet Roach, look at the AMAZING AI of Half-Life!!!

If Marines can be so vicious and "intelligent", why not virtual starfighter pilots? :)
 
I guess another reason is that most people prefer a simple AI, simply because we like to believe we're the best. Would you rather
a) Have a lot of fun blowing up hundreds of cats and bugs and get your kill score way ahead of Maniacs
b) Spend two hours trying to kill a single ship.

I mean, you're flying against a computer here. More specifically, you're flying a computer against itself. It knows exactly what you are doing the instant you do it. Theoretically, it should be possible to progam an AI that would never allow you to even line up a shot, let alone actually hit it with a 'slow' moving laser beam. But that would just make everybody really annoyed.

Besides, maybe the cats are just really bad pilots :D. Personally, I'd like to challenge sharks or birds - something that is used to living in a world of 3D movement.
 
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