Protester Arrested

redwolf

Spaceman
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Oh, please, play Junior Conspiracy Theorist somewhere else.

Can you seriously claim, with a straight face, that the United States has secretly set up this situation as a method to get *oil*? You seriously think that we'll spend billions of dollars on a war and subsequent reconstruction in order to be able to be in a position to *BUY OIL*? Why don't we just spend these billions of dollars to buy oil from the dozens of other countries that are happy to sell it do us? Oh, wait, *WE DO*. What's especially crazy, though, is that not only do you believe all this crap, but you also believe that the United States is both smart enough to create this huge elaborate, dare I say insane, conspiracy but also too stupid to hide it from hippies?
What you fail to realise Loaf, is that America is buying its oil from a cartel, OPEC, which most oil producing Middle East countries form part. The reason to spend all that money on war with Iraq (US$150 billion) is to use a free flow of Iraqi oil to break the cartel. Iraq has a great enough daily production capacity to break the latest round of "agreements" between OPEC nations.

Think about it this way, say Iraq is conquered and oil flows freely, the increased supply will drive prices down, from the current US$35 a barrel to say, US$30. Now that price of oil would attach itself to ALL oil produced in the world, give or take a dollar for geographical differences. That would potentially save billions in production costs each day to US companies, giving the faultering economy a kick start.

Now does spending US$150 billion sound so ludicrous? Also take into account the extra taxes received from the added profits of US companies, and it seems a new take on Keynsian economic theory.
 

Oggy

Rear Admiral
personally, I think we might all be better of researching new, cleaner technologies, such as hydrogen cells, (don't require oil)
Solar and wind power and Hydro electric, then you don't need oil as much, although we would still need it for plastics etc, but demand would less, less demand =(generally) lower price anyways
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
No, it's still crazily rediculous, because if we were actually hatching an evil conspiracy scheme to steal oil we'd have done it ten years ago. Didn't we spend those last ten years *refusing* to buy oil from Iraq? And if we want oil so badly that we'll invade someone for no other reason but that, why not one of those super-secret oil-producing countries who you claim we're really out to get? It's just too elaborately stupid to be pre-planned.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF

Can you seriously claim, with a straight face, that the United States has secretly set up this situation as a method to get *oil*? You seriously think that we'll spend billions of dollars on a war and subsequent reconstruction in order to be able to be in a position to *BUY OIL*? Why don't we just spend these billions of dollars to buy oil from the dozens of other countries that are happy to sell it do us? Oh, wait, *WE DO*. What's especially crazy, though, is that not only do you believe all this crap, but you also believe that the United States is both smart enough to create this huge elaborate, dare I say insane, conspiracy but also too stupid to hide it from hippies?
I think there's no point in debating if this "oil conspiracy" is true or not. People speak of it around the would as if it was undeniable factual reality. Apparently, people who never liked the US are just having a great opportunity to express it.

The world situation exists simply because everyone in the universe, with the exception of myself and whoever invented Combos(tm), are really really stupid. It's as simple as that.
"You arrogant Yankee!"

Why not nuke somebody? Because it'd be stupid. Nuclear weapons exist today *solely* as a deterrent -- don't attack me, I have this. They will never be used in a tactical manner.
By reasonable people, no. By suicidal fanatics, don't doubt it. As long as they have no regard for their own safety, they won't mind using nukes.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF The world situation exists simply because everyone in the universe, with the exception of myself and whoever invented Combos(tm), are really really stupid. It's as simple as that.
Correction: Pizza Combos. Those things are incredibly good.
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
Okay, I'm game for the "Incredibly ignorant conspiracy theory"

Ahem, bear with me now:

Yes, there is a conspiracy. We are paying off Sadam to be an international psycho via secret 3rd world banks. This way we can have him purposly wreak havok with weapons inspections, giving us a legitimate reason to remove him. Then, just as we cross his border, he's going to surrender his army and go into exile on some carribian island bleeding funds from a Swiss bank acount, ala Tropico. Then, one we have Iraq, oil rigs will *magicaly* appear and be more efficient than any others in the world. Pure, refined petrolium products like gasoline, lubrication oils, etc, will then be *magicaly* (sorry I have to use so much magic, but I need it for my theory to work) be teleported to USA at no cost. This unlimited free oil being supplied at 10x what OPEC could ever dream of will remove our reliance on other countries *at all* for our econmy (despite losing our #1 shoe suppliers, like Nike, and those marvelously silly looking volkswagens). George W. Bush Jr will then declare himself furer (sp) of the USA and have Congress and the Supreme Court disbanded. Martial law will be enforced.

And then we will go on to annex all of Europe, Asia, and Africa, and the rest of the Americas. Then we will bleed Earth dry of resouces, and take of in space ships to colonize the rest of the solar system (hence the need for the International Space station), and eventualy other systems. Eventualy we'll run into nasty critters like the Kilrathi and the Zerg and the (insert other sci-fi species), but we will quickly dominate and enslave them, and rule the galaxy with a twinkie and an Iron FistTM.

What do you think of my half-cocked theory?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Correction: Pizza Combos. Those things are incredibly good.
Pizza Combos are a kind of combos, you muttonchop.

By reasonable people, no. By suicidal fanatics, don't doubt it. As long as they have no regard for their own safety, they won't mind using nukes.
I don't really think North Korea is in that kind of position, though.
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Originally posted by t.c.cgi
What do you think of my half-cocked theory?
You forgot, Elvis will be the one leading the space forces and I'd be the one joining the Mandarins. Yeah, that's more crazy than all the oil comspiracies put together, although the idea that soldiers want to commit war crimes does come close.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Well, lets face it, who *doesn't* want to commit war crimes? When my buddies and I get together at the end of the week, we're all pretty tired from hatching out our elaborate twenty year schemes for reducing the gross cost of oreos by eight cents... so, like most people, we like to just hang out, shoot the breeze, and commit war crimes.
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Heh. Seriously, you think it's such a big problem considering the likelyhood of being caught? In fact, I haven't heard of war crimes being commited for a long time.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I don't really think North Korea is in that kind of position, though.
It appears that they just want to blackmail the US. But their dictator is nuts, he kidnaped a south korean movie director and his wife because he likes cinema.

North Korea is a bizarre, surreal place, even for the standards of isolated totalitarian communist dictatorships.

Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
Heh. Seriously, you think it's such a big problem considering the likelyhood of being caught? In fact, I haven't heard of war crimes being commited for a long time.
That byproduct of communism, Slobodan Milosevich and some of his thugs are being judged for war crimes by an international court. Never heard of the massacrers there? It wasn't that long ago.

You are more likely to be cought on war crimes if your side loses, so I don't think americans have much to fear at the moment.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Originally posted by t.c.cgi
What do you think of my half-cocked theory?
Your theory is fatally flawed. What you overlooked is the fact that Colin Powell has twins! Of course, he doesn't know it, because they're being raised in secrecy. The boy lives in Marocco, while the girl has been adopted by the rulers of Monaco. And one day, they will lead the rebellion, after Colin Powell orders the nuking of Monaco. Then young Colin Jr. will confront his father and George Bush Jr.. But he will not yield to the dark side! And finally, Colin Powell will throw George Bush Jr. into a big hole.
 

Delance

Victory, you say?
Originally posted by Quarto
Then young Colin Jr. will confront his father and George Bush Jr.. But he will not yield to the dark side!
"Join me. You can win the presidential elections. The president has foreseen it. Together, we can end this disruptive conflict, and restore order to the planet."
 

redwolf

Spaceman
Colin Jr....I am your fa-ther...


If only Hydrogen Cell cars came out sooner! It's those evil oil companies holding it back :)
 

junior

Spaceman
The single biggest reason to not go off half-cocked after North Korea (and the one thing that I consistently see ignored) - China.
You know, big nation, lots and lots and lots of people, Communist party that's probably more fascist than communist these days, no. 2 nation and would very much like to be no. 1.
You remember those guys?
They just happen to share a border with N. Korea.
Now you've got to ask yourself something.
N. Korea apparently has a nuke or two.
They've got these long range rockets that are apparently capable of reaching Alaska.
So how come the 500 lb. gorilla next door to N. Korea hasn't said a word about things (and if they have, how come I haven't seen it despite the fact that I've been specifically watching for it)?
The US is probably very careful about things that might antagonize the Chinese. Carrying out an invasion on the border of China for the express purpose of liberating an enslaved nation is probably going to cause, at the very least, "ripples" with the Chinese.
The US has said repeatedly that it will talk to N. Korea. The problem is that the US wants Japan and S. Korea to participate in these talks. The N. Koreans refuse to meet if Japan and S. Korea are present.
Thus, you have the little temper tantrums (that's exactly what they are - attention getting stunts) to try and get attention and convince the US to come to the table on terms set by N. Korea.
Eventually, the US will buy off the Chinese, or come to some similar arrangement, and then all bets are off.
As for Iran, there's a very simple reason why we're not interfering. Within ten years, Iran will be a relatively free nation which is once again a strong ally of the US.
And that will be without a messy military intervention.
The clergy dislike the US.
The citizens hold pro-US rallies at the drop of a hat.
Doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to bomb them, now, does it?
Smart dictators will realize that the real point of comparison is between Syria and Iraq. Both are in very similar circumstances, with one noteable difference. The former doesn't have a WMD program that is public knowledge.
The former also is largely ignored by the US.

Finally, oil. While a large part of the oil consumed by the US comes from OPEC nations, a large part of it also comes from other nations, including Russia and (I think) Mexico. OPEC controls some of the largest reserves in the world, but they don't have a lock on the market.
And finally, can someone explain to me why the price of a gallon of gasoline here in Southern California has, in the space of about 3 weeks, skyrocketed from around 1.50 to over 2.00 a gallon?
 

Phillip Tanaka

Swabbie
Banned
Originally posted by junior
The single biggest reason to not go off half-cocked after North Korea (and the one thing that I consistently see ignored) - China.
You know, big nation, lots and lots and lots of people, Communist party that's probably more fascist than communist these days, no. 2 nation and would very much like to be no. 1.
You remember those guys?
I've heard of them. The relationship between America and China has always been strained.

Originally posted by junior
They just happen to share a border with N. Korea.
Now you've got to ask yourself something.
N. Korea apparently has a nuke or two.
They've got these long range rockets that are apparently capable of reaching Alaska.
So how come the 500 lb. gorilla next door to N. Korea hasn't said a word about things (and if they have, how come I haven't seen it despite the fact that I've been specifically watching for it)?
Maybe they don't want anything to do with the conflict.

Originally posted by junior
The US is probably very careful about things that might antagonize the Chinese. Carrying out an invasion on the border of China for the express purpose of liberating an enslaved nation is probably going to cause, at the very least, "ripples" with the Chinese.
Yup.

Originally posted by junior
The US has said repeatedly that it will talk to N. Korea. The problem is that the US wants Japan and S. Korea to participate in these talks. The N. Koreans refuse to meet if Japan and S. Korea are present.
Hmmm, I wonder why. Because North Korea have no allies of their own?

Originally posted by junior
Thus, you have the little temper tantrums (that's exactly what they are - attention getting stunts) to try and get attention and convince the US to come to the table on terms set by N. Korea.
Like the threat of nuclear weapons, you mean?

Originally posted by junior
And finally, can someone explain to me why the price of a gallon of gasoline here in Southern California has, in the space of about 3 weeks, skyrocketed from around 1.50 to over 2.00 a gallon?
Simple: war. Regardless of the arguement over whether the war is about the oil, you will see fuel prices skyrocket because a lot of it comes from Iraq and the Middle East, andthere is every chance that it will stop being shipped or that the oil fields and fuel deposits will be destroyed by either accident or design.
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
Originally posted by junior
And finally, can someone explain to me why the price of a gallon of gasoline here in Southern California has, in the space of about 3 weeks, skyrocketed from around 1.50 to over 2.00 a gallon?
It's all those tanks and other fuel burning vehicles we have in the desert. Having a large military force mobilized half-way around the world, but not doing anything with it, kinda does that. We need oil for Beavis and Butthead's Abrams! :D
 

Aries

Vice Admiral
Originally posted by junior
And finally, can someone explain to me why the price of a gallon of gasoline here in Southern California has, in the space of about 3 weeks, skyrocketed from around 1.50 to over 2.00 a gallon?
oil companies fearing that a war will hurt their oil supply, so they jump the price. the price might go down now that OPEC has said that they will keep the oil flowing in the event of war
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Yeah, a few thousand planes, tanks, ships, etc, in Iraq is nothing at all compared to the number of planes, cars, ships, etc, in motion every day in the rest of the US.
 
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