Post WC4 Fleet info

[ChrisReid]

~~~ you mean aside from the fact that, with the way WCP phase shielding worked, the plunkett was nothing more than a pretty target?

The way that Prophecy handled shielding is irrelevant here. The original poster is writing a story. The Plunkett is a ferocious machine, and without arbitrary gameplay mechanics to get in the way, someone can write fantastic things about the ship.

Yeah - the Plunkett-class should have been able to last a lot longer in the game. Who in their right mind would make a glass cannon like that? A ship of that size and design should be able to last longer than that. But, look at it this way - it could have been worse

Did part of your post get cut off? Most anything bad could be worse, but usually people have some sort of specific example in mind when using that expression.

 

[t.c.cgi]

Who in their right mind would make a glass cannon like that?

The problem with the Plunkett isn't that it's weak skinned, at all. In terms of hitpoints the thing is a tank. 800 cm more bridge armor and 1300 cm more engine armor than Midway. The only thing heavier is the Vesuvius-class. No, the problem with the Plunkett is that the turrets of capships don't target subsystems. Imagine if that thing orbited and aimed the heavy artillery at bridges and engines like torps are handled. The Plunkett would eat Laviathans and Orcas for for appetizers before asking where the Tiamat main course is. The fact that it can be spanked by fighters isn't some major fault of the design concept - it's Wing Commander.

 

[LeHah]

I figured this would be of interest, given the original topic. I doubt that the events of WC4 changed the entire Confed/ConFleet military drastically, so this still may apply even a year after the game. From the WC4 novelization, page 60...

"The Assembly went on a budget-cutting spree. They mandated that the Space Forces cut a third of it's squadrons."

Blair winced, "Ouch"

"Eisen gave him a conspiratorial wink. "Not really. The wartime strength of most squadrons was ten birds. Tolwyn reverted to the old pre-war Table Of Organization, which called for sixteen fighters per squadron. He cut one third of the squadrons, all right, by transferring their birds to another squadron. He met the Assembly's goal without sacrificing end-strength."

===

Eisen: "I do know that the Assembly's Readiness Committee wasn't amused that Tolwyn stole a march on them. They told him he could keep his wings, if he cut fleet strength. He agreed. We sent the 40 series of CVs to mothballs and another eleven thousand highly trained people to the breadlines."

 

[Crazy J]

The problem with the Plunkett isn't that it's weak skinned, at all. In terms of hitpoints the thing is a tank. 800 cm more bridge armor and 1300 cm more engine armor than Midway. The only thing heavier is the Vesuvius-class. No, the problem with the Plunkett is that the turrets of capships don't target subsystems. Imagine if that thing orbited and aimed the heavy artillery at bridges and engines like torps are handled. The Plunkett would eat Laviathans and Orcas for for appetizers before asking where the Tiamat main course is. The fact that it can be spanked by fighters isn't some major fault of the design concept - it's Wing Commander.

Well, I suppose you're right. It's just me; I seem to remember these things getting spanked rather frequently. Well, my mistake. It's been a while since I played it; it was always the fighters/bombers getting 'em. I should apologise for jumping the gun like that.

Chris: Yeah, part of it did get cut off, and now I can't remember what I was going to say. I think I was referring to WC3 when the Ajax got spanked.

 

[wcruggerdude]

Yea a Plunkett would be great but I'm trying to not get involved in the whole Wing Commander Prophecy story and game. I always like Wing Commander II and III the most and really enjoyed IV and actually when I played Prophecy I never finished it or played Secret Ops, at that time in my life I got into a Final Fantasy kick. Well anyways the real point of my story is a focus on Confed and the military after the war and th Black Lance incident. How does the military adapt to being a peacekeeping and garrison force. What kind of interactions and dealing with the government do they have. and a major part of the story is how would Confed react if they encountered a new race who didnt want to conquer them but instead wanted to be their friends (other than the Frekkians).

 

[t.c.cgi]

Yea a Plunkett would be great but I'm trying to not get involved in the whole Wing Commander Prophecy story and game.

I tried to say this in my first post, saying there's a general lack of info. For all we know the Plunkett could have been in the design process in parallel to the Vesuvius. It could very well have been geared toward exactly what you're talking about. It just kinda shows up in Secret Ops as the standard cruiser without much introduction (just like all the other cruisers).

 

[Dragon1]

I think I was referring to WC3 when the Ajax got spanked.

I don't remember this. Although, I do remember the Ajax taking out a Fralthi II in head on combat (in Freya or Hyperion).

 

[floundericiousMI]

No, the problem with the Plunkett is that the turrets of capships don't target subsystems. Imagine if that thing orbited and aimed the heavy artillery at bridges and engines like torps are handled. The Plunkett would eat Laviathans and Orcas for for appetizers before asking where the Tiamat main course is.

Chris,

This is what I meant with my gripe...

The plunkett is a freakin awesome concept for a ship!!!! It's just that, the way the game mechanics (as you put it) work, it's a pink elephant. That's all I was trying to say...I was so disappointed seeing it in a mission firing at an enemy cap ship..and then seeing the "heavy particle cannon" rounds plink uselessly against the main phase shielding of a Nephilem cap ship.

Still think she's a beauty...

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Should I scrap it or keep with it or what.....Imput always desired, and LOAF I trust you to give an honest opinion so rip into me if you want

My feeling is basically that no story ever benefits from a 'super ship'.

The desire to create them is very, very strong... but they don't make a very good setting. Once you've established that your characters have an amazing super-battleship that slices, dices and sautees everything in the galaxy... what's the point?

Wing Commander 2 and Wing Commander Prophecy both run afowl of this - you start off with an amazing ship, so where do you go? Aren't the really compelling stories the one with the underdog characters on spit-and-glue ships facing a superior enemy? The Tigers Claw with her drippy ceiling, the Intrepid with her lack-of-a-bridge, the Victory. When you boil it down, giving your ship amazing technology is not the same as - and can be counter to - having a ship which is an amazing setting

(In defense of WC2, though, it's more the fans deciding in retrospect that the Concordia can do everything... her super gun was originally a little throw away explanation to do away with the 'Sivar' technology from a previous game).

Also, I feel that no story ever benefits from having its author play ship designer. No matter how good your intentions are, no matter how interesting your superdreadnaught seems to you, it will read to everyone else as though you are a dog marking a tree. That's just how fictional shipbuilding seems -- like you're trying to reinvent the universe instead of use it as the rules for your story. The really great tie-in stories are the ones that, well, tie-in. Where we say "Wow, I recognize that ship, and this guy is using it in a really clever way!". Who didn't get tired of the Forstchen novels telling us how great his CVEs were over and over -- and at the same time, wasn't it cool when all the ship designs in False Colors were ones we knew from Wing Commander III?

Finally, the whole 'ignore Prophecy' thing... who is this supposed to appeal to? What's the point of doing that? I honestly don't understand.

 

[floundericiousMI]

(In defense of WC2, though, it's more the fans deciding in retrospect that the Concordia can do everything... her super gun was originally a little throw away explanation to do away with the 'Sivar' technology from a previous game).

Although if you ask Christopher Blair, he'd say that the ship was crewed by people who could do everything, somehow someway