Operation Iraqi Freedom
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Aries
Vice Admiral
hell, even if we don't find those (and we will, it will just take some time, though i think that the WMDs are hiding in Syria) we will still be justified in having gone in and kicked ass. shoulda done it back in '91.
as for the war, going very well, though taking a bit longer than i expected, cause i thought the republican guard was gonna stand up and fight like men, not run away and hide like scared little girls. damn cowards
as for the war, going very well, though taking a bit longer than i expected, cause i thought the republican guard was gonna stand up and fight like men, not run away and hide like scared little girls. damn cowards
Phillip Tanaka
Swabbie
Banned
Well, if they don't find any World Massecring Devices or links to terrorism, then America would really have hell to pay. Sure, they've gotten rid of Saddam and all which is wonderful, and I think everyone knows that the war was not about terrorism or these World Massecring Devices. But for America to bomb Iraq on the pretences it made only to end up with egg on their faces because the reason they did bomb Iraq is false would be a political nightmare. And now they are threatening Syria for the same reasons. Well I'm sorry, but it's just not good enough anymore. America are really going to have to do much better than what they have done if they want to justify any action against Syria.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
What the hell? Find links to terrorism? They find a new link to terrorism in Saddam's Iraq every freakin day. Here's a terrorist training camp they found on the outskirts of Baghdad just today.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030416_1405.html
Did you all freakin forget about the Al-Qaida aligned groups Saddam let operate in the Northeast and the terrorists he harbored throughout the nation (such as Abu Abbas)? After 9/11 Saddam went on the record proclaiming loudly that any terrorist who kills himself bombing Israeli or US interests would have their family protected by a fat $25,000 Iraqi reward. Did you forget the Iraqi military actively endorsed sadding families with bombs and sending them to die at US checkpoints over the last month? Find links to terrorism? You've got to be kidding. The biggest difference between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was that Saddam actually was the official ruler of a nation state. His whole freakin regime reeked of terrorism. There's nothing necessary to find.. it's flat obvious.
And you suggest that the US will now face a backlash? Ha! These places are shaking in their freakin boots. Syria and Iran are bending over backwards to try to come clean with the US.. and recent peaceful overtures by North Korea and Cuba are no coincidence. They all saw how quickly we sliced through one bad regime. They know they're next if they don't get in line, and no so-called political backlash is going to stop it. And don't ever say "World Massecring Devices" ever again.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030416_1405.html
Did you all freakin forget about the Al-Qaida aligned groups Saddam let operate in the Northeast and the terrorists he harbored throughout the nation (such as Abu Abbas)? After 9/11 Saddam went on the record proclaiming loudly that any terrorist who kills himself bombing Israeli or US interests would have their family protected by a fat $25,000 Iraqi reward. Did you forget the Iraqi military actively endorsed sadding families with bombs and sending them to die at US checkpoints over the last month? Find links to terrorism? You've got to be kidding. The biggest difference between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was that Saddam actually was the official ruler of a nation state. His whole freakin regime reeked of terrorism. There's nothing necessary to find.. it's flat obvious.
And you suggest that the US will now face a backlash? Ha! These places are shaking in their freakin boots. Syria and Iran are bending over backwards to try to come clean with the US.. and recent peaceful overtures by North Korea and Cuba are no coincidence. They all saw how quickly we sliced through one bad regime. They know they're next if they don't get in line, and no so-called political backlash is going to stop it. And don't ever say "World Massecring Devices" ever again.
They caught the man who masterminded the Achille Lauro hijacking near baghdad the other day. FOr those of you who don't remember, the Achille Lauro was cruiser liner that was hijacked in the mediterranean by members of the Palestine liberation front in 1985, and an american citizen was shot and pushed overboard during the situation.
We then attempted to capture the hijackers. They boarded an airplane which they had requested as part of releasing the hostages, and US Navy fighters intercepted the airliner and forced it to land at a NATO base in Italy. We actually had them captured then. But italy dropped the ball and decided to let the hijackers go.
Now italy wants us to extradite this man to them so he can stand trial there. I think we should refuse the extradition, tell them they had the chance in 85 and didn't act. Now we will act.
We then attempted to capture the hijackers. They boarded an airplane which they had requested as part of releasing the hostages, and US Navy fighters intercepted the airliner and forced it to land at a NATO base in Italy. We actually had them captured then. But italy dropped the ball and decided to let the hijackers go.
Now italy wants us to extradite this man to them so he can stand trial there. I think we should refuse the extradition, tell them they had the chance in 85 and didn't act. Now we will act.
Phillip Tanaka
Swabbie
Banned
Okay Chris, listen. I thought that all the evidence they believed to have found had come up dry. Since I hardly watch the news now because of everything on Iraq and SARS I could be wrong, and if so I apologise. If they had concrete evidence of hidden Weapons of Mass Destruction, then good for them. I know about terrorists operating in Iraq. There's terrorists acting in America as well. But was there any definete link between Saddam Hussain and terrorism? You said any terrorist who kills himself bombing US interests. I never heard of that. the funding of Palastinion suicide bombers, sure. If he did say that, then sure bomb him to hell. I agree. The article you submitted, this was the first I've heard of it. You would think, certainly, that Saddam would know if he had terrorists virtually on his front doorstep, wouldn't you? The home of Saddam's top biological weapons labs. A terrorist training camp. Coincidence? Happenstence? What do you think? I think that, armed with this evidence, America has what they need to back up their claims of Weapons of Mass Destruction and links to terrorism.
I'm in agreement with the whole Syria thing. Oh no WMDs? maybe they're hiding in the next country over! Lets bomb them and take them over! YEAH!!! 
If you consider that these "terrorists" are fighting for their beliefs and the continuing survival of their beliefs, then you can say that the United States has ties to terrorism as well. So what's the big deal? The US supported the KLA in Kosovo and bombed the crap out of Yugoslavia right? The KLA was classified as a terrorist organization.
I see the government US as hypocrites because they prey on the collective amnesia of society and it allows them to demonize those who are against them although they may have once worked with or benefited from those same people. If the country was as just as Bush makes it to be, you would've invaded Iraq and prevented the regime from gassing Iranians too, except that Iran was the enemy at the time and Iraq was a business partner. The government looks the other way when it suits your interest.
Speaking of WMDs and hypocrites... wtf is up with the US using cluster bombs on Iraq!
If you consider that these "terrorists" are fighting for their beliefs and the continuing survival of their beliefs, then you can say that the United States has ties to terrorism as well. So what's the big deal? The US supported the KLA in Kosovo and bombed the crap out of Yugoslavia right? The KLA was classified as a terrorist organization.
I see the government US as hypocrites because they prey on the collective amnesia of society and it allows them to demonize those who are against them although they may have once worked with or benefited from those same people. If the country was as just as Bush makes it to be, you would've invaded Iraq and prevented the regime from gassing Iranians too, except that Iran was the enemy at the time and Iraq was a business partner. The government looks the other way when it suits your interest.
Speaking of WMDs and hypocrites... wtf is up with the US using cluster bombs on Iraq!
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Abu Abbas cannot be tried in the US, however. Unless they choose to extradite him to Italy, they won't have a reason to hold him - he has not broken American law, since the hijacking did not take place in US territory. Indeed, even if he had broken American law, they still wouldn't be able to try him, since under the terms of the 1995 peace deal, PLO members cannot be tried for crimes committed prior to 1993.
Of course, that's all hypothetical. In reality, the US is already claiming that this immunity only applies under Israeli and Palestinian jurisdictions, so I guess they'll find some excuse to try him anyway.
Of course, that's all hypothetical. In reality, the US is already claiming that this immunity only applies under Israeli and Palestinian jurisdictions, so I guess they'll find some excuse to try him anyway.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
The world needs to stop feigning ignorance as an excuse to take stupid jabs at the US. The "war on terrorism" has absolutely nothing to do with eliminating every terrorist organization in the universe and absolutely everything to do with getting rid of the groups we don't like. I know it, you know it -- so lets just get it out in the open so we can all quit pretending to be stupid.
Anyone who seriously believes that they're the one person who can truly understand the world is only fooling themself.
Cluster Bombs are 'dumb fire' weapons which are generally used to attack infantry and light armor positions.
After what the Syrians put Roger Wilco through in Space Quest 1, they deserve to be invaded.
t.c.cgi
Vice Admiral
It's not WHY you're fighting that makes you a terrorist, it's HOW you fight. If they all used guns and wore uniforms and didn't purposely use civilians as victims in many of their operations, they wouldn't be terrorists, they'd be a militia or some such.
In short, terrorism is the tactic of using unconventional attacks on, or using, innocent individuals to get what you want.
Don't you think that's kind of... wrong?
Unexploded ordinance creates a humanitarian nightmare. The US government was talking about the precision capability of their attacks and the focus on minimizing civilian casualties, however the use of cluster munitions directly contradicted their aims.
HRW has an article on it. I just thought it was kind of dumb to be boasting about minimizing civilian casualties when their actions did not reflect their words.
t.c.cgi: I wasn't referring to how they faught that's terrorism, I was meaning that it would be wrong to say that Iraq is bad because of _________ when the US has also done the same. Ties to terrorism is one example which both have in common.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Not at all -- the US doesn't have an obligation to run the world. Pretty much every country has "terrorists" fighting against whatever the established norm is -- it's generally none of our business. If we believe Country X is supporting the sort of terrorists who are a threat to the United States, then we're going to be justified in involving ourselves.
Your article specifically says that there is no evidence that cluster *bombs* have been used in the current campaign. The examples of cluster-based artillery it gives are all very clearly against military emplacements.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Look, Bush went into Iraq because Saddam
1.) Has never done anything to endear himself to us
2.) was dragging his feet with disarmament
3.) deserved it for
a.) Killing 2.5 million of his own civilians
b.) forcing the US to end aid to his own people via sanctions because he was hogging all the medicine/foodstuffs/etc
c.) harboring terrorists and extremists that were anti-america
d.) having WMDs (Checmical agents like Sarine were found in the Euphrades River)
Thats all the reasoning you need. It's a freaking war of attrition: would you rather another million or two die of starvation or lose a few hundred at most to free these people from a tyrant?
1.) Has never done anything to endear himself to us
2.) was dragging his feet with disarmament
3.) deserved it for
a.) Killing 2.5 million of his own civilians
b.) forcing the US to end aid to his own people via sanctions because he was hogging all the medicine/foodstuffs/etc
c.) harboring terrorists and extremists that were anti-america
d.) having WMDs (Checmical agents like Sarine were found in the Euphrades River)
Thats all the reasoning you need. It's a freaking war of attrition: would you rather another million or two die of starvation or lose a few hundred at most to free these people from a tyrant?
I believe that the US war against iraq and the larger war against terrorism is just. And i don't understand how all these people can come up and say that it isn't. Where were all you people when Clinton was in office and we were bombing the Balkans? We didn't go through the UN for that, we used NATO. Yet there was no big protest against that action, or calls that we should give Slobodan Milosovic more time. And there was even less of a vital US interest there, except for providing humanitarian aid, which is what we are attempting to do now in iraq.
In my opinion, people are hypocritical because they don't like George Bush and they don't approve of the new position of our foreign policy. I also think that other countries don't like us, not because of our policy on iraq, or any of our other foreign policies, but because the United States is the only superpower right now. The United States is the biggest and most powerful country economically and militarily. And no matter what our intentions are. Others always become suspicious of the most powerful and they will band together against it.
See, Before 1990 there was the Soviet Union that scared the crap out of everyone because they didn't want to be overrun by it. But now, with that threat gone, there is no force to unify other countries views with our own.
So i think no matter what we do, other countries will be against us and more vocal in criticizing us. At least until another nation, perhaps China, starts to be seen as a threat.
In my opinion, people are hypocritical because they don't like George Bush and they don't approve of the new position of our foreign policy. I also think that other countries don't like us, not because of our policy on iraq, or any of our other foreign policies, but because the United States is the only superpower right now. The United States is the biggest and most powerful country economically and militarily. And no matter what our intentions are. Others always become suspicious of the most powerful and they will band together against it.
See, Before 1990 there was the Soviet Union that scared the crap out of everyone because they didn't want to be overrun by it. But now, with that threat gone, there is no force to unify other countries views with our own.
So i think no matter what we do, other countries will be against us and more vocal in criticizing us. At least until another nation, perhaps China, starts to be seen as a threat.
ChrisReid: if you actually think tthat al-queda and saddam had any connection beyond a mutual HATRED, then you do NOT understand middle eastern politics or really anything about either group.
Ohh and aries yes "we havent found the WMDS because they are in syria" then when we dont find them there, we will attack iran saying they are there, and when we dont find them there, where will we look next? ohh and btw syria are ALLOWED to have wmds just as much as the US is. So that wins as the dumbest argument ever.
Ohh and aries yes "we havent found the WMDS because they are in syria" then when we dont find them there, we will attack iran saying they are there, and when we dont find them there, where will we look next? ohh and btw syria are ALLOWED to have wmds just as much as the US is. So that wins as the dumbest argument ever.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Oh, wow, a half-wit teenager says Chris' argument is dumb, so it *must be*! That's all the proof I need!
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