Military vs. Civilian ships

Border Worlds Militia? In Gemini? I think not! The two militia craft, Talon and Gladius (which makes me wonder why you've designated the Talon 'most') are both military fighters. Surplus Talon's were illegally sold to the pirates and retros years and years ago. (Of course, the militia is also a civilian organization, but I digress...)
 
Confederate soldiers' arrogance

Did anyone think that the ConFed pilots were quite arrogant? They had that tone about them, as if they were better than thou.

On more than one occasion that required a severe beating... Paradigms are the best to give a hiding to. (more ejected pilots!) :D
 
Originally posted by Napoleon
Burns the thing is that in 2669 the ships and guns that were used were out of date, the seltek gun on level 2 only did 19 cm of damnage, that is less than a laser in WC3, as such we can safely say that all the ships in Privateer are quite outdated if the most powerful gun has such a low power output in comparison.
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Chances are the power data between a WCIII laser and the Privateer Steltek level 2 gun is way out of proportion. In Rightious Fire, the Retros have the level 2 gun, and everyones shields get increased strength. There is no way I would believe that a laser would be more powerefull than the Steltek level 2 gun. But just because the ships are so called outdated, doesnt mean they cant be UPdated and loaded up with UPdated equipment. If a WCIII laser is more powerfull than the Steltek gun level 2, then why would Confed have 3 mass drivers on the Broadsword and 2 meson blasters on the Stilletto? They are Confed ships, seems rediculous to have lasers in Confed inventory that are more powerfull than the Steltek gun but yet arm their craft with less powerfull mass drivers and meson blasters. It just doesnt make sense. The specs may say this or that, but its in flight and in combat situations where you find the real hard data. For instance, it only takes 2 shots of 1 Steltek level 2 gun to take out the shields of the Paradigim. And 1 shot of a level 2 Steltek gun to inflict serious damage to the armor. Id like to see this laser do the same thing. (when pigs fly)

RFBurns
 
Re: Confederate soldiers' arrogance

Originally posted by redwolf
Did anyone think that the ConFed pilots were quite arrogant? They had that tone about them, as if they were better than thou.
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remmeber what captain paulsen said to blair in WCIV?

that's how they think about you, plus the fact that they're pissed at HQ for having to fly a piece of crap instead of one of those nifty thunderbolts or excals, and they're usin scum like you to relieve there stress;)
 
Re: steltek gun

Originally posted by scheherazade
well, that 19 is a bit off...

there was a little conversion, i think it was 10x or 8x or something like that.

19cm of (i forget the name of the metal they use) is equivalent to 190 cm of steel.

hence the rediculous armour values on the wc3 fighter data sheets... they gave the steel equivalents, not the real values. and the older wc games dealt with the real values, not the steel equivalents. that's why the armour values are so different in wc1/2/p and 3+. for example (this is from memory) i think the thunderbolt has 250 cm (steel equivalent) armour... now imagine if it were REAL 250 cm armour... the ships armour would be more than a story thick. but 25 cm of (whatever it's called metal) armour is MUCH more plausible.

so all in all, if the steltek gun took off 19 cm of actual armour, that's 190 cm of steel it'd take off (about as deep as a _very_ tall person stands...). so 2 hits would take off a thinderbolts armour and score a sizeable hit on the insides.

-scheherazade
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In which case, the Steltek level 2 gun did! 2 hits on a Paradigim would take away the shields completely, followed by one or two hits on the armor and there were ejected pilots all over the place! More inconsistancies in data specs. Bummer! But remember, the key word in comparing the armor rating and actuall steel is "equivalent".

RFBurns

[Edited by RFBurns on 03-02-2001 at 16:33]
 
No you are wrong, in the WC3+ manuals the numbers are given in Durasteel equivalent. As such the steel argument is invalid. So a reason why their might not be 2.5 meters of armor is that the armor they use to replace durasteel (IE why it is callled durasteel EQUIVALENT)
 
Wasn't there another armor type in Priv1, Tungsten? And the in RF Isometal? Perhaps they replaced Durasteel. And the Priv1 manual states that Plaststeel is harder than Durasteel. So it could even be Plaststeel.
 
In Privateer, plasteel comprises the equivalent of 10cm durasteel; tungsten 20cm. Each shield level comprises the equivalent of 100cm durasteel. The armor penetration of guns is based on the durasteel standard as well.

In WC3, the durasteel standard is also used, but the armor/shield penetration of guns is expressed in so-called armor units, 1 armor unit being equal to 0.1cm. Hence, the laser’s penetration rating of 18 translates into 1.8cm.
 
Seriously, would you have 2.5m of armour ALL AROUND a fighter that has a length of 25 or so metres? Especially in every nook and cranny?

I think not. Therefore it should be read a sthe equivalent.
 
Actually, shield strength is rated in Durasteal Equivalent. Armor is rated in the actual Durasteal ammount. Read the manual more closely next time.
 
This thread is exceedingly confusing, even for a superhypergenius like Trelane. Luckily, I stayed up last night and equated all the weapons and shield data on a yellow pad... these are my conclusions.

Guns -
Guns in Privateer and Wing Commander III do very similar amounts of damage, with only minor differences, *usually* in favor of the MilSpec technology. The distinct difference is energy use -- military guns use ranges in X*10^-9 joules (nj), whereas civilian guns use X*10^9 joules (Gj) to fire. This is presumably why military ships have capacitors, and civilian ships must tie their guns directly into their engines.

Missiles -
MilSpec missiles have a consistent, distinctive advantage -- here's the specific data.

Dumb-Fire Missile
Military: 3000 kps / 80 cm
Civilian: 1000 kps / 13 cm

Heat-Seeking Missile
Military: 2000 kps / 40 cm
Civilian: 800 kps / 16 cm

Image-Recognition Missile
Military: 1600 kps / 35 cm
Civilian: 800 kps / 17 cm

Friend or Foe
Military: 1200 kps / 25 cm
Civilian: 900 kps / 17 cm

Armor -
Armor values for ships in Privateer are tiny. You do *not*, as previously indicated, multiply the armor data on the civilian ships by 10 or 20 because of the armor -- rather, the manual has already given it in cm *equivalent* of Durasteel. This means that, comparitively, the WC3 ships have many times as much equivalent armor.

(The idea behind the purchasable armor is that you will give your ship an *extra* 10, 20 or 60 (RF) cm of armor -- add this number to any player ship to get the 'maximum' armor).

Shields -
Shield values for Privateer are actually similar to WC3 -- depending on the upgrade. Each shield gen provides an additional 100 cm of shielding, meaning that the heavy gunship Orion can have *500* cm of shielding.
 
Sorry LOAF, but I must point out to you that a nanojoule is just too small a unit to use in a gun to do damage. As I've said previously, we could strap a human in as a gun capacitor and do more damage than the guns counted in nanojoules!

The fact is a human consumes/uses 11 000 KILO joules a day. A Kilojoule is trillion times more than a nanojoule (or around that). I believe if anyting Origin's printed screwed the specs.

Its more likely that instead of Priv's guns counted x10^-9 joules, it was x10^9. Just one index under a gigajoule as counted as a Milspec.

You can't go chopping and changing this particular law of physics, it would be absurd! Remember, human gun capacitors!
 
I don't know much about physics, but I'm pretty sure Wing Commander has never paid much attention to them in the past. :)
 
Of course, good old suspension of belief. I think we're paying a little too much attention to detail here. Maybe the manual authors though the "nano" in nJ sounded more 'techy'.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
(The idea behind the purchasable armour is that you will give your ship an *extra* 10, 20 or 60 (RF) cm of armour - add this number to any player ship to get the 'maximum' armour).
Click to expand...

Wow, where did you find the values from?

Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Shield values for Privateer are actually similar to WC3 -- depending on the upgrade. Each shield gen provides an additional 100 cm of shielding, meaning that the heavy gunship Orion can have *500* cm of shielding.
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I had the impression that one shield level provided 100cm of shielding for the whole ship. By that I mean that, since there are four shield sections, the 100cm would be divided into 25 cm extra for fore/aft/left/right each. Is that not right?
 
That's a good thought regarding shields, actually -- that makes a lot of sense. Although it'd be 50cm/50cm rather than 25 all around -- only Armada ships have side shields (G) Wait... Armada... and Privateer, 25 does make sense.

As for the armor -- for your money you purchase one cm of it -- 1 cm of plasteel is the same as 10 cm of durasteel... 1 cm of tungsten is the same as 20 cm and so forth (G)
 
Oh, I'm glad you agree with me on the shields thing. I think.

As for the armour, I still don't recall where it says we only get 1cm extra. Besides, I thought civilian grade armour isn't supposed to be that great, plus it seems funny having to scratch off all your plasteel or tungsten, and then adding isometal!

[Edited by Wedge009 on 03-07-2001 at 23:28]
 
Hehe... but you do have to sell your old armor before you can upgrade to tungsten or isometal (G) (or downgrade, or whatever).
 
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