Midway Carrier Program - Pros/Cons

[TC]

Originally posted by Aries
50k actually. but why should they need to make the tonnage lower?

Thrust. For each extra bit of mass, you've cut the accelleration of the ship.

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by Aries
50k actually. but why should they need to make the tonnage lower? afterall, they have those jump engines that can use damn near any jump point, regardless of mass. cost shouldn't matter, cause the vesuvius had that special armor. if the midway was using standard armor, would't the cost armor be less?

and i ment the devastator type plasma cannon, not the big bug one

Because you'd need to cut mass down if you want to have any maneuverability, acceleration, etc... every extra ton means you've got more inertia to handle, more mass to drive with the engines, which means you end up either dedicating less of that mass limitation (the engines will still need to exert force on each kilogram of matter in the ship to propel it, remember?) to fighter support and other necessities or sacrificing capability (there goes the equipment for the science lab).

And the regular Devastator cannon, as far as we can tell, merely punches through the shield with a lot of extra energy... but the bug one would have SO much energy that even extra armor probably would be a waste of space.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by BattleDog
Yeah, Its worked so far.

On the other hand, give me a Manta and two wingmen, plus 6 Devil rays as Escort and I'll sink her

Or, give me a Dev and two wingmen, plus 6 Vamps as Escort and I'll sink a Bug Dreadnaught.

The survival of the Miday is down to the Player, In one of the defence missions, try not shooting anything, she goes down pretty quick.

Yeah, yeah, heard it all before - and it's still bullshit . This same argument can be made about any capship in WC. The Vesuvius that's supposedly such a grand idea compared to the Midway was also destroyed in a single strike by the player. By these standards, only the Concordia can be considered a good capship - and only because it was invulnerable all through the game.

The point is, the Midway did survive, regardless of any hypothetical situations you can think of. And yes, of course it would go down without its fighters. There is no carrier out there that *could* survive without its fighters - just as there are no dreadnoughts that could survive without their weaponry.

 

[Aries]

Originally posted by Haesslich
Because you'd need to cut mass down if you want to have any maneuverability, acceleration, etc...

it doesn't have any of that anyway

still, you would think that with blair heading the program, the midway would still have better armor. after all, he was a pilot and knows how to take out carriers and knows that the main shipkiller is a torp that bypasses shields. he may not have designed it, but he had to at least have some input on the design. but instead, the midway looks like it was designed by bearuacrats or used car salesmen: incredible shields, hardly any armor (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't need armor), a low top speed (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't have to have good speed), no maneuverability (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't have to have good maneuverability), and a lower fighter compliment than the previous carrier design (as a cost cutting measure, and anyway, it's got great shields), oh, and did i mention it's got great shields?

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by Aries
it doesn't have any of that anyway

still, you would think that with blair heading the program, the midway would still have better armor. after all, he was a pilot and knows how to take out carriers and knows that the main shipkiller is a torp that bypasses shields. he may not have designed it, but he had to at least have some input on the design. but instead, the midway looks like it was designed by bearuacrats or used car salesmen: incredible shields, hardly any armor (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't need armor), a low top speed (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't have to have good speed), no maneuverability (but hey, it's got great shields, so it doesn't have to have good maneuverability), and a lower fighter compliment than the previous carrier design (as a cost cutting measure, and anyway, it's got great shields), oh, and did i mention it's got great shields?

I'm thinking of acceleration and maneuverability when NOT in combat - you know, when we have to travel between system jump points? Or did you think the Midway cruised there at like 100 kps and take five days to get there?

And he wasn't heading the program - he was a design consultant. You do realize that a project like that's not a one-person job? I suspect his contributions probably went through in a committee, and they stuck him with the fighter aspects. The arterial storage seems like an idea he might've pushed for, given how the Concordia kept having issues with its launch tubes getting shut down due to sabotage or combat damage.

Beyond that, they still had to go for limited ship-kills in the Vision engine, at least, due to the heavy armor at any other point except for the bridge and engines... else we could've killed Midway with a shot at any old angle, the way we may be able to do so in WCP for GBA.

 

[TC]

And he wasn't heading the program - he was a design consultant. You do realize that a project like that's not a one-person job? I suspect his contributions probably went through in a committee, and they stuck him with the fighter aspects. The arterial storage seems like an idea he might've pushed for, given how the Concordia kept having issues with its launch tubes getting shut down due to sabotage or combat damage.

Actually, he was the Senior Operational Consultant. It makes it sound like he's the guy who you'd go talk to about how things would actually work out in the field and the like... Paladin also makes it clear that he's actually doing research. This would explain why he's off riding about on the Midway. He's doing operational research to see if there are things that can be fixed up in later Midway class vessels.

Beyond that, they still had to go for limited ship-kills in the Vision engine, at least, due to the heavy armor at any other point except for the bridge and engines... else we could've killed Midway with a shot at any old angle, the way we may be able to do so in WCP for GBA.

Word is that you can kill more easily by going for the bridge and engines, but can still thwack them by hitting them in other places if you try hard enough.

 

[Wedge009]

Like a mix between old-fashioned capship bashing (WC1/3/4) and component targeting (WCP/SO)? Sounds interesting.

As for the argument of one big target versus several small ones, I think some consideration also applies to what you're trying to do. An entrapment or seige scenario is much easier to accomplish with several smaller ships encircling a large target (dreadnought, Super Star Destroyer, planet, etc).

 

[Haesslich]

Originally posted by Wedge009
Like a mix between old-fashioned capship bashing (WC1/3/4) and component targeting (WCP/SO)? Sounds interesting.

As for the argument of one big target versus several small ones, I think some consideration also applies to what you're trying to do. An entrapment or seige scenario is much easier to accomplish with several smaller ships encircling a large target (dreadnought, Super Star Destroyer, planet, etc).

You're probably not going to try to lay a siege with the carrier nearby, however - the fighters are doing the seige along with your frigates and destroyers. The Carrier's just a support platform - a target in any case. You're going to keep that far, far away from the action... maybe even the next system over, since you can jump fighters into other systems now, thanks to jump buoy tech.

But for the most part, with patrols that may include dispatching the ship to do missions that you'd normally send a science ship to do with a small fleet... a Midway and her battle group would probably do just fine, and bring enough protection to spread around her fleet.

 

[Wedge009]

Hey, I'm for the Midway program, given that the Confed politicians don't want to burn so much money on military funding any more.

I was just pointing out that different tasks require different kinds of ships. And some types could accomplish a broader range of tasks than others.