Mercenary guild render, mining base model

Eh, Brad's point of view is understandable -- he was in #WingNut the other night when Hellcat was ranting about how people should enjoy the 'original' Privateer before applying the WCU patch.

It's up to the development team to figure out what they're doing, but the PrivRemake people have put a pretty conflicting face on what their objective is... and, of course, it's also up to the community to criticize them for poor decisions.
 
it's one of the other darker reasons why i left really, people wanting to put in 'my version' of privateer and wc into this project. up until the other day, i was going to have to fix...everything, that people chose not to do correctly. how much fun is that? being qaulity control has its serious downsides.
 
Brad's right. The Remake itself should be as close to the original as possible. If you want extra stuff, get the WCu patch. Now, in my opinion, it's a lot more fun with all the WCU features than without, but that doesn't mean I try to push those features into the Remake itself. As for the model, if it really is differnent, ask spirit to put it in the WCU patch. It its the same, go ahead and put it in the Remake. 100% accuracy.
 
I understand that people want to keep it as close to the original as possible but surely now its gone beyond that with new story lines being implemented and shouldn't there be new bases and other things to keep people's attention and to keep them wanting more.

All i think that it is surely more difficult to make something new and fresh that looks like it belongs, rather than just using some1else's basic and model and updating it?

I am sure that this last comment will be taken to heart far too much by some people, so i apologise in advance
 
the problem is, people think 'ewww sprites!' well...to be honest, the source material that generated the sprites is more detailed than anything put in any WC game to date (3d engines being the only thing that count here). The problem lies in trying to get nice, non ugly renders of the sprites. the original privateer sprites were rendered very small, and at the time as well render qaulity wasn't what it is today. if you follow the actual models as your guideline, you will have one very nicely detailed model (not needing any kind of 'imagined' or 'i like this' kind of detail). why do you think the models i did for the remake look like they do? i followed to the 't', the originals.
 
BradMick said:
the problem is, people think 'ewww sprites!' well...to be honest, the source material that generated the sprites is more detailed than anything put in any WC game to date (3d engines being the only thing that count here). The problem lies in trying to get nice, non ugly renders of the sprites. the original privateer sprites were rendered very small, and at the time as well render qaulity wasn't what it is today. if you follow the actual models as your guideline, you will have one very nicely detailed model (not needing any kind of 'imagined' or 'i like this' kind of detail). why do you think the models i did for the remake look like they do? i followed to the 't', the originals.
Click to expand...

that was Brad ;) (who has some awesome references)

COME ONE BRAD, GIVE ME SOME REFERENCES, PM ME PLZ.... eheheheh

this original splash screen with Gladius on it played a trick on me due to its angle, couldn't get the detailes, it was almost impossible. So final model look only 50% similar lol.. hahaha (won't be releasing it) ;)
 
brad <

polycounts are a lil iffy to judge in a space sim.
for one thing, you have no (not literaly, but they are negligible) environmental polys, so you pretty much have all the resources that normall go into the entire scene now available for just the models.

also, polygonal saturation hasn't happened yet. texture saturation has.
most games (90+%) slow down due to texture size, not polycounts.
quite literally, you can double tex rez, and see half the fps (or less if you run out of agp mem). you can double the polycount, and see a 10% drop in fps.
developers have been using textures more and more, and not saturating polycounts at the same rate. so there is a _lot_ of headroom, hardware wise, for polys.

some side effects are, you can MIP away texture rez, but you can't do that for polys. so usually polys are done for the lowest-common-denominator, while textures are done for the middle or best machines.
this is just to guarantee that crap computers wont choke on it.
but anything purchased in the last 2 years or so (not the super machines, just mid range), will not choke if we have, for example, all 30K models. (as i said, no environment to worry about, just player models. that frees up a couple hundred thousand faces)

there is too much old-dogs-new-tricks going on with polygons in the game industry. people are re teaching the ways of the old, when pcs really didnt have the juice. i do _not_ mean it's ok to waste polys, but really... we shouldn't think in a quake2/3 frame of mind about todays models.

an nvidia 6600 (the recent crap card) offers so many tris a second, that in priv remake you could put in the original models (art ones), and the fps wouldn't drop below 60.

piotr <
contact me via
aim : scheherazade0xf
icq : 4189579
msn : scheherazade at strategyplanet.com
i'll tell you the modelling conventions for making addon parts.
we'll get your upgrades working and in game :)

-scheherazade
 
brad <

oh yah, i forgot to say.
i 100% agree with you about the 'originality' issue.
i'd prefer the art to be as much of a match of the original art as possible.
i'd venture to say, no creativity (not literally, but you know what i mean). just reproduction.
this is a remake.
and the goal is to be as canon about wc as possible.

goals :
priv remake = privateer as canon as possible
wcu = all of wc slapped into one universe, as canon as possible

taking liberties with the designs is just making it less WC.

it's like people who do movie remakes.
guy #1 "hey what a great original idea! i'd love to redo it with todays technology!"
guy #2 "yah, great idea!, let's change everything!"

it's retarded. imo.

just make something new if you're not gonna stick to the canon.

-scheherazade
 
I agree. A lot of the stuff they came up with is neat, it just doesn't fit into a remake of Privateer. Buying gun aiming devices, cloaking devices. Demons, Talons, etc. would all be good-to-innovative ideas for some kind of Privateer 2675 game... but right now it's just sprinkling sharp candy on top of the regular game's chocolate chip cake. And no one wants to eat a cake with jolly ranchers on it.
 
well it might be a nice thing to introduce those features into a new game and call it not a WCU, but Privateer: Total Remake ;) that will work. That way you have privateer, but greatly enchanced with some features and stuff ;)

as for the Privateer Remake i agree as well that the team has to stick to the original design as close as possible. It's a remake (and not a total remake ;))
 
scheherazade0xf said:
an nvidia 6600 (the recent crap card) offers so many tris a second, that in priv remake you could put in the original models (art ones), and the fps wouldn't drop below 60.
Click to expand...
The 6660 is nVidia's midrange card. The 6200 is the crap card, and it is much slower than the 6600.

I get your point, though.
 
Uh, my point got missed. I'm saying models should change for changes sake. But look at the mining model posted at the start of the thread. It's obviously recognisable, but it's also BETTER than the original. Why push it backwards for the sake of being 100% accurate? Accuracy comes in the storylines and gameplay. Actually improving the models with better textures and extra detail is surely a good thing as long as they stay true to the original in terms of style and general shape.

Of course, what is and is not an improvement is very subjective, but even the WC/Privateer nuts out there must surely feel there is room for minor (I stress the word minor) improvement in the original models. Or not?

I think the mining base at the top of the thread is awesome. Not my call though.

*shrugs*
 
no. either 100%, or not at all. :) the details are there. follow the original as your guide, and it will kill anything out there today. seriously. i know for fact :)

Brad Mick
 
Eh, it's kind of a mute point at this point -- no one has perfectly emulated the original models yet, so there's no space to tell what could be improved on yet.

Certainly, there are things that can be improved with minor details... like the base in this very thread -- what if someone went beyond the original model and rendered the entire detailed concorse inside the dome? That'd be very cool and entirely appropriate.
 
well, of course. in areas like that, if you're modeling the full detail up deal, yeah. no problem. what i'm saying is no 'detail just for the sake of detail' or 'i thought that this looked better'.
 
loaf <

really the only way to be accurate to the original art is to have access to the original models, and to build new ones in the same space, overlapping the originals dimensionally. but i understand your reluctance to give out art. a lot of people won't respect it when given access. but we do what we can with what we can. i'd like to have things ideal, but we know that's not possible as things are.

IMO, PR needs to be stripped of extras and locked down as a proper remake.
WCU needs to be officially forked, where other canon material can be pulled in.

the engine and art can be upgraded for both as time goes by, but the features and gameplay should be done best effort in respect to canon.

-scheherazade
 
except i'm weary of her approach. she's so far been more about coming up with stuff rather than pulling in existing wc material. lotta her ideas are not founded in wc history, but are basically 'nifty' (like new turret on the orion). which is fine and all, but then it means there should be some other fork that's wc canon only? or 2 versions of wcu? one that's wc only, and another that's whatever someone requests? i dono

-scheherazade
 
As far as I'm concerned, WCU is pie in the sky. It is a load of work that no one has bothered to do and I doubt anyone ever will. Spiritplumber is actually doing something (basically by herself) so it's no surprise WCU is leaning towards her ideas.

If people want to see it ever finish, they'll need to help her out in ways more extensive than lobbing suggestions. The general reluctance to do so is exactly why I set my sights lower - on something limited to Privateer's quadrants and ships.
 
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