Let's get this straight

Originally posted by TheFraix
Hey... I thought for the movie haters the Concordia supercruiser 'never existed'.
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I don't want to start another debate here, but I just wanted to point something out. The people who think the movie is not part of the games don't hate the movie. I actually enjoyed it, I just enjoy both the game and movie universes better separately. But that discussion is in another thread :)
 
Originally posted by Bob McDob
Simple. Concordia was retired befoire the war, thus clearing the name for Concordia. But when Concordia was destroyed at McAuliffe, Concordia was put back into service. Sometime mid-war, say 2661, Concordia went down, and the Confederation dreadnought was renamed Concordia, in honor of Concordia. Or something like that...
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Good reasoning for how the movie concordia fits into all of this, though I still stand by my opinion :)

But the Confederation dreadnaught was a different ship from the wc2 Concordia. Tolwyn probably chose the name of the wc2 Concordia when he was given command of a newly commisioned dreadnaught.



[Edited by Terrorizer on 07-20-2001 at 01:38]
 
The WC2 Concordia was exactly the same as the Confederation Dreadnought, the TCS Concordia (from WC2) is a Confederation class dreadnaught. The movie Concordia was a Concordia class supercruiser.

And I dont think Tolwyn was allowed to choose the names of his ships. I think.

[Edited by Supdon3 on 07-20-2001 at 01:47]
 
Yes, the Concordia from wc2 is a confederation class dreadnaught. I was saying that the confederation is a separate ship from the concordia. There actually was a confederation dreadnaught(maybe a prototype ship, or even prototype ptc cannon).

And why wouldn't tolwyn name the wc2 Concordia? He has the power to create a superweapon(and name it), but he can't name his ship? At the end of AS it depicts him thinking "someday, another ship will bear the name Concordia" or something along those lines.
 
That was wishful thinking, knowing that new ships will be built and one should rightfully bear the name Concordia in honor of the ship that gave her life in battle. But Tolwyn never had that kind of power, until he was almost made Space Marshall in WC4. The Behemoth project was started and built long before Tolwyn came on board. He took over the reins when it became aparent the Kilrathi were going to win the war. But he did neither concieve the project or christen it. He may have had input into naming the Concordia, but i dont think he can dictate terms about it.
 
Actually, Tolwyn got involved very early in the Behemoth project, around 2659.

Anyway, I don't see why you think naming ships requires huge power and influence in confed. Space marshalls aren't the only people with the *immense* power required to name a ship. It's not like space marshalls sit around all day naming ships, they had much more important things to worry about during the war. Tolwyn was an admiral, and he had the power to name his ship.

It's obviously not a coincidence that tolwyn was serving on another concordia, a name he had much respect for based on his past experiences.
 
Sure it is, obviously Roberts or someone likes the name Concordia, so it was used twice, and Forstchen liked it and used it in Action Stations.

Space Marshalls dont sit around naming ships, but when it comes to their own flag ship that is coming out of dry dock, then they get to name their own ship more than likely if they care too. If they were letting Tolwyn name his ship, they may as well just let him have his own private little navy, instead of the 12th fleet, call it the Tolwyn fleet. Besides, when is it ever said that he recieved command of the ship right after its completion? Letting him rename the ship is rediculous. And with all the bouncing around he did, why go through all the trouble. He had command of the Concordia, then command of the Tiger's Claw, then the Austin all withing three years. If he had stuck with one ship from the beginning, maybe i could see it but he didnt.

And he wouldnt have gotten involved in the Behemoth project until after the battle of Earth when he was promoted, cause he was onboard the Concordia from 2661 to 2668, and he wasnt involved in it before that.
 
Originally posted by Supdon3
Space Marshalls dont sit around naming ships, but when it comes to their own flag ship that is coming out of dry dock, then they get to name their own ship more than likely if they care too. If they were letting Tolwyn name his ship, they may as well just let him have his own private little navy, instead of the 12th fleet, call it the Tolwyn fleet. Besides, when is it ever said that he recieved command of the ship right after its completion? Letting him rename the ship is rediculous. And with all the bouncing around he did, why go through all the trouble. He had command of the Concordia, then command of the Tiger's Claw, then the Austin all withing three years. If he had stuck with one ship from the beginning, maybe i could see it but he didnt.
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This is a very stupid argument we have gotten into.

First off, I didn't state that Tolwyn named the concordia, it was just a thought.

Many people have permission to name ships. For example, in the U.S. Navy, the secretary of the navy gives permission to many people to name ships if the name reflects tradition. Tolwyn could have gotten permission to name the ship.

Second: what the hell is your reasoning that "If they were letting Tolwyn name his ship, they may as well just let him have his own private little navy, instead of the 12th fleet, call it the Tolwyn fleet." That makes no sense. The name concordia is a traditional name for a confederation ship. Letting Tolwyn name a new ship a previously used name isn't giving him personal ownership of that ship.

Third: I wasn't saying tolwyn was *renaming* the ship. Once again, the Confederation and Concordia wc2 are two *separate* ships of the same class. The Confederation was never renamed, the wc2 concordia is a separate ship. Read what I said carefully.

The wc3 novel states on page 274 that Tolwyn had been working on the behemoth project for 10 years, since 2659.


[Edited by Terrorizer on 07-20-2001 at 02:43]
 
Originally posted by Terrorizer

And Bob, the forward pylons probably existed for a long time. The victory had them, and she's from before the war.
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Actually, I meant, erm, game-wise, not WC-wise, if you get my drift :)
 
I do know that Tolwyn was on the Concordia for seven years. Fleet Action takes place in 2668, in it, he says he has been proud to have been serving on board the ship for the last seven years pg 23(2668-7=2661).

Firstly, I will believe that the Secretary of the Navy allows people to name ships, especially if its a traditional name, but is it usually the captain of the ship or someone involved in the construction of that ship? In either case, it is still with the Secretary's permission.

Secondly the Hell my reasoning is this: The Concordia is a ship of the Navy, it is owned by the Navy. The Navy trusts Tolwyn to use it properly, but it is their ship, not his.

Third I never said you said anything about renaming the ship, and i know that there was a TCS Confederation and a TCS Concordia of the Confederation class, and Im talking about the supercruiser from the movie, but IF Tolwyn had not recieved command of the ship immeadiatly after it was built, then if he were to name the ship, he would have had to rename it, or why else would he have requested it be named Concordia in the first place? Read what I said carefully (especially this last part cause it may seem jumbled but it does make sense)

Your right, it did say he was involved in the early planning stages, but only that. He was pulled away from his job as head of Terran Defense to finish the project. He didnt become head of Terran Defense until after the Battle of Earth in 2668 when nearly anyone of higher rank than himself was killed, and he successfully defended Earth from the Kilrathi fleet. So that means he worked on it for two years (before taking command of the Concordia in 2661) and then nothing until late 2668, early 2669 when it was nearly completed and rushed into action. It was likely he wasnt even in charge of the project in the early stages, let alone the one naming it.
 
Hello everybody !!!
before this thread will be closed i want to put my view:

1)How many of you thought that the ships from WCM where the same of the games before viewing the movie????
Almost always the design (ships,cars, whatever) from a movie doesn´t match the original (game,book, paper)BECAUSE IT´S A MOVIE !!!!

2)Concordia(WCM)=Concordia(WC2)....Of course not!!!!
Why Ghost ?????
Fact:Because the Concordia(WCM) was built before SM1,and the Concordia(WC2) has the PTC.,right !!!!!
Well, according many posters (TC IIRC) you can´t put a PTC into the hull of a ship, the Concordia(WC2) was built AROUND the PTC, you can´t put or take the PTC from a ship.
The PTC was some relative of the Big Gun that the Sivar have in SM1, and the Confed makes the PTC IIRC with the design or some other thing based on the Sivar.,But the SM1 comes after the movie.
My theory:The Concordia(WCM) was the hero of the day (with the help of the Claw) in the battle of WCM,maybe some time later the Concordia(WCM) was destroyed,moothballed,crashed or some other thing, and the Confed called Concordia to the Concordia(WC2) like an homage.

Clear ????
 
Ghost:

1. WHy would this thread be closed. If we arent allowed to have a friendly debate why the hell is this chat zone even here?

2. As for the rest of your post, a big DUH!:)

Terrorizer:

I left in my snaffu about Tolwyn being a part of the project for only a short while, you didnt need to edit the part where you told me to put my money where my mouth was with how long Tolwyn was aboard the Concordia:)

[Edited by Supdon3 on 07-20-2001 at 03:15]
 
DUH... what do you mean ????? :p
If the movie have the Concordia ship with another name the problem is no more...., like the typo of the Tiger Claw, and the CS instead of TCS.
 
hehe, DUH is what people in America (and possibly elsewhere) say when we dont want to say, "I already know everything you just told me."

If they had chosen a different name than Concordia, yeah, things would have been easier, but come on, its really not that complicated. You got it exactly right before.
 
Duh !!!!
I know that
*rimshot*
Goooooooooo Ghost !!!!

Edit- BTW there a many people here who wants my wisdom and enlightnement (doing the Kwai-Chan-Kain thing :eek: )

[Edited by Ghost on 07-20-2001 at 03:36]
 
I like "Gooooooooooooooo Ghost!" myself. Sounds like cheesy 80s Sunday morning cartoon stuff.
 
The service-date for the Confederation class Concordia (henceforth, CVS-65) is based on several facts. Since its central PTC is based on the remains of the KIS Sivar, it must have been built after 2655... add to this the fact that it takes five years to build a carrier (mentioned in the novels), and the service date for the nameship (TCS Confederation) must be 2660 or beyond. Thus, when Tolwyn says he's commanded Concordia since 2661, we can be reasonably sure this has been since (or since just after) its comissioning. Regardless of all this, the 2656 Concordia (WC2 KS manual) *must* be a different ship (as the original Concordia class Concordia was destroyed in 2634).

As for Tolwyn being able to name his ships... one *could* be very, very anal and point out that he was able to name the Mjollnir. :) That situation aside, he probably was *not* the person who named CVS-65... naming a warship is usually a very political descision. At the very least, there's absolutely no reason or justification for assuming that he had anything to do with naming the ship. Naming her Concordia just made sense -- after two other valiant Concordias. (*Neither* of which, mind you, he *commanded*... he was a fighter pilot off of the original for a couple missions, and he held his flag on the second (but he wasn't its captain -- a man named Dwight was).

Tolwyn was involved with Behemoth at its inception in the 50s... but he was rather removed from it until he took over being in charge of it from Ubarov after the Battle of Terra.

And Tolwyn commanded the *14th* fleet, not the 12th. <G>
 
14th Fleet? I thought Tolwyn was commander of 3rd Fleet, LOAF.

Anyway, what does the name Concordia mean? Is it a place or a thing or something Roberts made up?
 
Chris Roberts didn't write WC2, so he didn't name the ship Concordia... but it's the name of a number of college, and it basically means "harmony" or "union" -- going with the name-theme of *Confederation* class ships <G>

Tolwyn commanded the 3rd Fleet from Fleet Action on... but in WC2 he commanded the 14th Fleet.
 
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