Infernal WC date mixups!

G

gryphon

Spaceman
Can someone help me around a problem?

I'm having serious trouble distilling the information in the different manuals to a coherent universe. Let's start with 2667. First, the Enigma campaign, and then the two special operation packages. Then, according to the timeline, End Run starts in 2668.

According to the Armada manual and other sources, these back door attacks proceed for twelve months. Meaning all the way through the year. THEN the Kilrathi offer the armistice, and Fleet Action ensues. However, in the Armada manual, it says that at 2668.330, the battle of Earth was over 8 months ago! Meaning it took place around 2668.090. The question is simple - how do I cram this into one and the same universe?

Also, there's an issue with Privateer being set in 2669, the war coming to a close in 2669, and Righteous Fire being set 1 year later, with the Confederation forces locked in a desperate fight with the Kilrathi! So much so, that they need privateers to help? Should I attribute this to a sort of False Colors uprising thing or what?

Trouble trouble
 
I've always considered Privateer's date to be a non-issue -- "one year later" isn't specific enough to say that Rightous Fire is a contradiction. It's possible that Privateer takes place at the beginning of 2669 and then Rightous Fire at the end... failing that, the war being fought at the end of Privateer may well be against remnants of the Kilrathi Empire... we see people on the border continuing to fight the Kilrathi just after the end of the war in False Colors, as well.

By putting End Run as close as reasonably possible to Special Operations Two and then following internal dates, we get a story lasting from 2667.135 to 2667.188. Then, a careful analysis of Fleet Action (based on the known date of the Sivar ceremony and extracting from there), we learn that the book takes place from about 2668.190 to 2668.365. This gives you the 'over a year' between the two (2667.188-2668.190) for Jukaga's exile and Bondarvesky's return to Earth.

So, then the Armada manual... red herring? Sort of -- but I have a semi-reasonable explanation: it was written *before* the Battle of Terra, and the eight months refers to the time before 2668.330. .330 is just about the time the carrier force was *discovered*, and the fleet began shipping out -- so they've been patrolling for eight months, and the Concordia is about to go join the fleet. The guy in the Armada manual is being transferred off before this.
 
I buy everything except the last part... Chiefly, why would Confed send a mission into the heart of Kilrathi space, aimed at destroying Kilrah, with an armistice in effect? Or, failing that, with a huge fleet inbound to Earth? Otherwise I like Your explanations. I was already thinking of sectioning off RF as a False Colors situation, which might go as far as to explain away the unpreparedness of Confed, what with certain demobilization going on and everything... As for End Run, moving it to 2667 solves the problem, but does that conflict with any internal dates? As far as I remember, End Run is uaually considered to have taken place in 2668, but I'd love to be wrong about that...
 
We all know that there were those in Confed who believed the armistice was a joke the entire time.. Seeing as Armada was entirely a special ops thing, it's quite reasonable for it to be an unsanctioned mission.
And if they knew a huge fleet was inbound.. Would one more carrier make a difference? It's the fighters that were needed at Earth.. the Special Ops Lexington only got two Arrows. :) If it's a last ditch chance to take the Kilrathi out with us, it'd be worth it.
 
I buy everything except the last part... Chiefly, why would Confed send a mission into the heart of Kilrathi space, aimed at destroying Kilrah, with an armistice in effect? Or, failing that, with a huge fleet inbound to Earth? Otherwise I like Your explanations.
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Doesn't matter -- the 2668.330 entry is just about ArmadaCharacter being transferred off the Concordia... the Lexington stuff doesn't show up until the next entry, dated 2669.012 (two weeks after the Battle of Terra).

As for End Run, moving it to 2667 solves the problem, but does that conflict with any internal dates? As far as I remember, End Run is uaually considered to have taken place in 2668, but I'd love to be wrong about that...
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Nope, think you're just mixed up -- everything specific we have from the area has a 2667 date (Kilrathi Saga Manual, Voices of War).
 
Originally posted by TopGun
What does that mean?
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It's from Ren & Stimpy... Once in an episode they're talking about something and then I think Stimpy, goes absolutely mad and says "Suddenly it's all clear to me.... I'm the keeper of the cheese.... And You're the lemon salesman!!! And he knows it!!! That's why he's trying to kill us!!!" and so on *lol* I thought it was a nice rendition of the moment of insight...

As for Loaf, well I like threads like this too :) But there's nothing a few days of discussion can do about manuals which seem to be printed seemingly without any knowledge that there are other WC games, shield stats, distances and ships masses especially... The tough nut to crack was the Armada manual, which IMHO Loaf's red herring at least makes an effort at ;)
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I've always considered Privateer's date to be a non-issue -- "one year later" isn't specific enough to say that Rightous Fire is a contradiction. It's possible that Privateer takes place at the beginning of 2669 and then Rightous Fire at the end... failing that, the war being fought at the end of Privateer may well be against remnants of the Kilrathi Empire... we see people on the border continuing to fight the Kilrathi just after the end of the war in False Colors, as well.

By putting End Run as close as reasonably possible to Special Operations Two and then following internal dates, we get a story lasting from 2667.135 to 2667.188. Then, a careful analysis of Fleet Action (based on the known date of the Sivar ceremony and extracting from there), we learn that the book takes place from about 2668.190 to 2668.365. This gives you the 'over a year' between the two (2667.188-2668.190) for Jukaga's exile and Bondarvesky's return to Earth.

So, then the Armada manual... red herring? Sort of -- but I have a semi-reasonable explanation: it was written *before* the Battle of Terra, and the eight months refers to the time before 2668.330. .330 is just about the time the carrier force was *discovered*, and the fleet began shipping out -- so they've been patrolling for eight months, and the Concordia is about to go join the fleet. The guy in the Armada manual is being transferred off before this.
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That makes no sense...

The Concordia was said to have grown rickety after years of abuse...

Yet in WC Fleet Action the Concordia was fine at the start of the novel. It only got the sh*t beat out of it towards the end (the three-torpeodo-hits).

-Concordia
 
Ah, and being further damaged in the ensuing month *would* account for being "rickety after years of abuse"?
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Aww, I liked this thread :(
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If you mean that, I could ask you about the timeline of the ranks of Tolwyn and Blair on the WCA/WCM/WC1 period. Now that's something complicated. :D
 
Wait... how is all the stuff we see in WC2 not abuse? I mean, it gets randomly attacked, bombed, rammed, all kinds of fun things... and there's obviously stuff that happens before Wing Commander 2. It's war. The Concordia was abused since she was put into action.
 
Originally posted by Delance
If you mean that, I could ask you about the timeline of the ranks of Tolwyn and Blair on the WCA/WCM/WC1 period. Now that's something complicated. :D
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Tolwyn's ranks are pretty easy:

2634 - Graduates as an Ensign, promoted to 1st Lt. after McAuliffe Ambush.
2639 - Has made Captain.
2654 - Has made Commodore.
2655 - Promoted to Rear Admiral.
2673 - Promoted to Space Marshal.

There may be a period in there where he's a Vice Admiral for a little bit... but other than that, everything goes in order.

Blair in WCA is easy, too:

Red & Blue (WCA Episode 1)
WC Movie
Pilgrim Stars
WC1 - rest of WCA takes place in the middle
SM1, SM1.5, SM2, WC2, etc...
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Red & Blue (WCA Episode 1)
WC Movie
Pilgrim Stars
WC1 - rest of WCA takes place in the middle
SM1, SM1.5, SM2, WC2, etc...
Click to expand...

OK, question, how does the rest of WCA take place in between the events of WC1 when Tolwyn is still in command of the Tigers Claw, not Captain Thorn. Also if the rest of WCA takes place in the middle of WC1, why are Blair, Maniac, and the rest still referred to as cadets?

C-ya
 
Originally posted by Viper61
OK, question, how does the rest of WCA take place in between the events of WC1 when Tolwyn is still in command of the Tigers Claw, not Captain Thorn. Also if the rest of WCA takes place in the middle of WC1, why are Blair, Maniac, and the rest still referred to as cadets?

C-ya
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OH SNAP :eek:
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
There may be a period in there where he's a Vice Admiral for a little bit... but other than that, everything goes in order.
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i thought he got bumped from rear admiral to full admiral in FA after banbridge and the other admirals get killed in the bombing by the cat ambassador
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Blair in WCA is easy, too:

Red & Blue (WCA Episode 1)
WC Movie
Pilgrim Stars
WC1 - rest of WCA takes place in the middle
SM1, SM1.5, SM2, WC2, etc...
Click to expand...

Thanks. That would Blair's ranks a pretty good mess, however. :D

Red & Blue - Cadet
WC Movie - Lt. JG
Pilgrim Stars - Lt JG ?
WC1 - rest of WCA - 2nd Lt / Cadet

So how to put that in order? Maybe cadet was position and 2nd Lt was rank, and 2nd Lt = Lt. JG?
 
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