In WC3 Tolwyn is Perfect

[Mjr. Whoopass]

From what I've heard of Tolwyn, he's a jerk and a psycho based on other WC games. However, having played only WC3, he seems like an excellent admiral. The things people are upset about him with in WC3 aren't real reasons to be upset. When he's accused of "usurping" command of the Victory, Tolwyn accurately responds that "admirals, by definition, do not usurp". He's an admiral, he should be in command.. In the brief time he's there he sees what many people who have been there longer, including Blair, haven't seen. As he leaves he makes a public statement about how he believes someone on the ship is leaking information. The captain takes offence at this- but sure enough, we find out Tolwyn is right. Was there anything about him in WC3 that we were supposed to hate him for? I thought he performed perfectly.

 

[Gliderboy]

And in WCIV he attempts genocide.

 

[ChrisReid]

From what I've heard of Tolwyn, he's a jerk and a psycho based on other WC games. However, having played only WC3, he seems like an excellent admiral.

Well, he pretty much puts Blair in exile in WC2, so that's where the animosity comes from in WC3. There is a whole lot more to Tolwyn's character than almost any other in WC, even Blair probably. Half the novels detail his past exploits in depth, and he was introduced as a character as early as the Secret Missions in 1991. You might like him in WC3, but I think the general consensus is that he's in his prime in End Run/Fleet Action.

 

[SpaceDrake]

Of course, in the grand scope he's still one of the best video game villains ever put to binary. Even if he was only sideways-villanous in WC2 and 3. And his slow descent into madness works so damn WELL.

 

[Nomad Terror]

I felt kind of sorry for Tolwyn at the end of the Price of Freedom novel.

Sure, what he was trying to do was wrong, but he sounded so desperate about it, as if he truly felt that was the only way to protect humanity. And until the end he is thinking of ways he could have improved his plan.

 

[Sphynx]

I think that Tolwyn's words regarding himself and others in WC 3 show what a jerk he is:

"Project Behemoth requires a guardian angel..." referring to himself. Also, "I hold the fate of the Confederation in my hands." He also referrs to the operations of the Behemoth as if he were personally piloting it. Talk about delusions of granduer.

Then, there's the way he insultingly brought his own cook aboard the Victory, a slap in the face to both the Victory's cook and to her crew, since he saw himself as being above what they had to eat day in and day out.

Then, there was his comment to Blair, "A fine quality of yours, this transfer of loyalties." These are just a few examples from WC3. You may not see it that way, but Tolwyn comes across as a real jerk to me in WC3.

The remarkable thing about Malcom McDowell is that he still managed to make Tolwyn a bit of a sympathetic character, as well. He's a man who honestly believes that he's doing the right thing, even as he becomes increasingly less human and becomes pathologically obsessed with the progress of the war and the human race. By the end of WC4, I can't stand him, but I can't help but feel sad for him as well.

 

[LeHah]

I like Tolwyn through and through. I dont agree with what he did - but I can see where he's coming from.

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

I think that Tolwyn's words regarding himself and others in WC 3 show what a jerk he is:

"Project Behemoth requires a guardian angel..." referring to himself. Also, "I hold the fate of the Confederation in my hands." He also referrs to the operations of the Behemoth as if he were personally piloting it. Talk about delusions of granduer.

Well Sphynx, this is the type of post I was hoping for to start a discussion. I think Tolwyn's first comment is absolutely fine. Behemoth needed a guardian angel in Tolwyn just as the Tembler Bomb needed one with Paladin. This was possibly humanity's last attempt at survival- it only makes sense to bring a high ranker who knows the project in detail to oversee its success. The T-Bomb was a much longer shot than project Behemoth- the bomb wasn't even finished and who knew if the professer was still alive and could finish it in time. He should have said "we hold" to be polite, but "I hold the fate" is correct as well- an admiral controls the whole fleet.

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Sphynx:

Then, there's the way he insultingly brought his own cook aboard the Victory, a slap in the face to both the Victory's cook and to her crew, since he saw himself as being above what they had to eat day in and day out.

I think an admiral deserves to have his personal cook. I don't think anyone complained in the movie "Under Siege" when the admiral had his own personal cook (played by Stephen Segal). It's important to keep your admirals healthy- it could be a logistical nightmare if an admiral became too ill to lead- especially a project directly tied to humanities fate.

Of course Tolwyn's move in WC2 is unfair. If Blair was just an average pilot it might be safe to ground him and the Confederation wouldn't suffer.. but on any given mission Blair's worth more than a dozen fighters and several capships- so this was very foolish... In WC4 he's a psycho. But I think in WC3 he shines through what I feel are failed attempts to demonize him. I think it does make for an interesting character- one with alot of depth- he has good and evil battling within himself.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Well, animals are not like people, Mrs. Simpson. Some of them act badly because they've had a hard life, or have been mistreated...but, like people, some of them are just jerks.

Wing Commander IV (and stories written later on with the fate it created in mind) aside, Tolwyn isn't *evil*... he's just a jerk (to Blair).

Then a writer made the same silly assumption that this thread did -- that being a jerk somehow meant he was wrong/bad/evil/etc...

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

Then a writer made the same silly assumption that this thread did -- that being a jerk somehow meant he was wrong/bad/evil/etc...

Well... what is a jerk then... right/nice/good/etc...? Well, I guess a jerk can be right.. like Maniac is when he says "Too bad Cobra had to die to get her point across"... but I would say a jerk at least at the time they're a jerk would qualify as at least bad if not evil.. but I guess this sort of tangent belongs more on a miss manners forum than a Wing Commander one. I think it was cool that the writers of WC3 didn't let Blair rip into Tolwyn even though you know he wanted to. Blair throws some shots back at Maniac and Flash when they're jerks, but never seems to get back at Tolwyn.

 

[FrostyNSO]

Tolwyn always had a way of making you think "What a jerk..." while at the same thinking "...but he does have a point."

And that one of the many things I like about his character.

About the cook:

Tolwyn was in his 60's or 70's, it could be that his physicians have him on a regulated diet (like many seniors today) and so he has his own cook to prepare these special meals for him. It would make sense that Confed would want to keep one if it's most experienced officers healthy.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Then, there's the way he insultingly brought his own cook aboard the Victory, a slap in the face to both the Victory's cook and to her crew, since he saw himself as being above what they had to eat day in and day out.

Uh..

It's an immemorial custom of the service that captains and admirals have their own stewards(and cooks) and carry them around whereever they go.

Tolwyn being one of those sticklers for tradition, would therefore keep his steward with him when he hoists his flag somewhere...

 

[McGruff]

How much is known about Tolwyn before he became a flag officer? I seem to remember reading somewhere that he was a decorated ship captain, and the animated series hints that he was once a fighter pilot.

 

[Shipgate]

And what of Malcolm Mcdowell. He's awesome. Even when he plays a small role he does a great job. I just saw Hidalgo the other night and was pleasantly surprised to see him in it.

 

[ChrisReid]

How much is known about Tolwyn before he became a flag officer? I seem to remember reading somewhere that he was a decorated ship captain, and the animated series hints that he was once a fighter pilot.

Some absolutely wonderful defining of his fighter pilot and early career is detailed in Action Stations.

 

[criticalmass]

Well... what is a jerk then... right/nice/good/etc...?

Here is a nice definition of "jerk" (from wikipedia):

In physics, jerk (in British English, jolt), also called surge, is the derivative of acceleration with respect to time (or the third derivative of displacement). Yank is mass times jerk, or equivalently, the derivative of force with respect to time. Jerk is a vector, and there is no generally used term to describe its scalar value.

The units of jerk are metres per second cubed (m·s-3). There is no universal agreement on the symbol for jerk, but j is commonly used.

Jerk is used at times in engineering, especially when building roller coasters. Some precision or fragile objects—such as passengers, who need time to sense stress changes and adjust their muscle tension, or suffer e.g. whiplash—can be safely subjected not only to a maximum acceleration, but also to a maximum jerk. Jerk may be considered when the excitation of vibrations is a concern.

Higher derivatives of displacement than jerk also exist, but they are rarely necessary, and hence lack agreed names. Many suggestions have been made, such as jilt, jouse and jolt. In development of the Hubble Space Telescope's pointing control system, the fourth derivative of position was considered and the engineers used the word jounce in their publications.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk

Now apart from than Yank is the result of 'mass x jerk', it doesn't tell us much, especially as Tolwyn is a Brit, not a Yank.

But furthermore, you can extrapolate that if jerks are needed to build rollercoasters, and higher derivatives of jerks were needed to build Hubble, it may be safe to say that for the construction of the Behemoth, a jerk of the highest order was needed - and obviously Tolwyn fit the bill.

[Caution - may contain traces of irony or sarcasm]

 

[MamiyaOtaru]

Very nicely done

 

[LeHah]

Being a high ranking officer on the front lines during a war tend to make people dour. And its not like Tolwyn was looking to be popular, just effective.

 

[Sarty]

I think both Blair and Tolwyn are both good people, but we get a biased opinion considering the games and books are from Blair's point of view. They both hold a certain animosity toward each other. But I think Blair went to far when he implied that Tolwyn's success at the Battle of Earth was a fluke and that he didnt deserve credit.