How's your lovelife: Flint or Rachel?

Mjr. Whoopass

Mjr. Whoopass

<FONT color=lightblue><B>I was going to say someth
I was watching Plywood Fiend's video about Blairs choice between Flint or Rachel. In the novel we read that Blair chose Rachel and it didn't work out. I can only wonder if Flint might have been the better choice for him. In game, I picked Rachel.

After this I realized that in real life when I've decided between girls, I would pick the more flirtatious Rachel types rather than the sweeter Flint types that I had more in common with. I wonder if it's a coincidence that my relationships didn't work out. I wonder if there's any relationship coorelation there or if it's just a complete coincidence. For you Rachel guys, have you had a relationship that worked out? How about the guys that chose Flint?

I also just realized that this thread looks like one of those wierd magazine surveys where the question you answer is supposed to say something about your love life, but I think it would be interesting to find out.
 
I'm kind of ambiguous, Flint is more stable, except that she's also likely to die. Rachel however, isn't likely to last long, but if she does leave it won't be because she's dead. I'm leaning more towards Flint though.
 
I should clarify the question: If you chose Rachel when you played Wing Commander III, are you now married or in a long term stable relationship in real life or have you bounced from girl to girl (or THEY bounced from guy to guy)? If you chose Flint.. same question...
 
I avoided the issue all together. I had just lost Angel and even after that campaign of much killing and victory, I just wasn't ready for another one.

And since we're relating our WC3 lovelife to our real ones, I guess you could say I will probably never get over Angel's death, and have only gotten more isolated with each year.
 
t.c.cgi said:
I avoided the issue all together. I had just lost Angel and even after that campaign of much killing and victory, I just wasn't ready for another one.

And since we're relating our WC3 lovelife to our real ones, I guess you could say I will probably never get over Angel's death, and have only gotten more isolated with each year.
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You know, I never got to explore that option. What happens at the end if you choose niether?

Also, although Flint is definitely hotter, I'd say Rach is probably a safer option. Realistically after losing a pilot woman, you wouldn't have as great a risk with a grease monkey.
 
I was watching Plywood Fiend's video about Blairs choice between Flint or Rachel. In the novel we read that Blair chose Rachel and it didn't work out. I can only wonder if Flint might have been the better choice for him. In game, I picked Rachel.
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Well, that's a fairly easy theoretical question to answer - the published Wing Commander IV script actually opens the game with a scene that depends on which woman you chose in III... and they both leave Blair for the same reason. (And of course historically speaking Flint died at Kilrah, and you can decide for yourself whether or not that's a better end for a relationship...) What you're missing here, though, is that the breakup wasn't a fault of Rachel or Flint's personalities (which are really, really similar)... it was because Blair slipped into depression and alcoholism after the war.
 
Well, that's a fairly easy theoretical question to answer - the published Wing Commander IV script actually opens the game with a scene that depends on which woman you chose in III... and they both leave Blair for the same reason. (And of course historically speaking Flint died at Kilrah, and you can decide for yourself whether or not that's a better end for a relationship...)
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Interesting. You would think a good woman would stay by her man and help him through the hard times.. not just love him while he's the greatest hero in the Universe and ditch him when he hits a low in life.. sad.

My opinion is that their personalities are very different. Rachel was scripted with a lot of flirty sexual innuendo comments and it's probably no coincidence they casted an adult film star to play her role. In contrast to her role was Flint's lines which often commented on the importance of family while waxing romantic with her memories of moons and sounds of the insects on her home planet.

It's interesting that so far there seems to be a direct coorelation between choices.. I have a rocky love life with several flirtatious "Rachel" types, the guy who picked no one has likewise chose to stay single, and the guy that chose Flint has one that's going ok. I'm sure there are exceptions and I probably would've said I chose Rachel and it was going great if you asked me while I was in a relationship. If I were to bet on it, I'd say as a whole there would be a corelation given a large enough sampling of surveys.
 
Interesting. You would think a good woman would stay by her man and help him through the hard times.. not just love him while he's the greatest hero in the Universe and ditch him when he hits a low in life.. sad.
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I'm willing to bet that *this*, and not whether or not you picked Flint, speaks more towards your problem with women. A relationship isn't a suicide pact... and your read on how it started is pretty poor. Rachel (or Flint) didn't go gunning for 'the greatest hero in the universe' - the relationships began when they made themselves available to a man who was in serious pain. Blair was shattered by Angel's death, damaged by Hobbes (and Paladin)'s betrayals and was facing the end of his military career with a second-rate assignment that was below anyone (but Tolwyn's) estimation of his value. Then the war ended and Blair... became even more depressed, drowned himself in the bottle and dragged them to a subsitence farm at the edge of nowhere. Rachel (or Flint) had a right to be happy.

My opinion is that their personalities are very different. Rachel was scripted with a lot of flirty sexual innuendo comments and it's probably no coincidence they casted an adult film star to play her role. In contrast to her role was Flint's lines which often commented on the importance of family while waxing romantic with her memories of moons and sounds of the insects on her home planet.
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... except when Flint was flirting (the laughing scenes at the start, the flying euphamisms and an actual conversation about flirting) and when Rachel was building some deeper character (stopping Blair from drinking, talking about her MIA pilot boyfriend, etc.) Rachel certainly isn't defined by her *flirting*, which both engage in fairly shamelessly...
 
When I first started playing WC3 and saw the beach scene with Angel and Blair, I honestly thought that they were on a honeymoon or something. Its was just my own theory that sort of surrounded the words "This is forever?" "Forever isn't long enough." So by my count that was either kicking off thier marriage, or a proposal. Then Thrakath refers to Angel as Blair's Lairmate, which at the time I took to meaning wife.

As the game progressed, I became less and less sure of this, but there was no way to tell for sure.

Had it been me in Blair's shoes, I doubt I would have chosen either of them. Come on, a man needs time to heal. Its not really hard to imagine that his relationship with either woman didn't last, Blair was on the rebound in a way NO ONE would ever want to be on the rebound; dealing with watching the woman he loved more then anything die an extremely painful death, realizing that his two best friends had betrayed him, and having his two critics (Cobra and Maniac) throw "I told you so"s at him left and right.
 
When I first started playing WC3 and saw the beach scene with Angel and Blair, I honestly thought that they were on a honeymoon or something. Its was just my own theory that sort of surrounded the words "This is forever?" "Forever isn't long enough." So by my count that was either kicking off thier marriage, or a proposal. Then Thrakath refers to Angel as Blair's Lairmate, which at the time I took to meaning wife.

As the game progressed, I became less and less sure of this, but there was no way to tell for sure.
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Believe it or not, this has been debated before. :) There's no solid suggestion that they were ever married, though - it's not directly referenced anywhere and all of the potential trappings point against it (ie, she's still "Colonel Devereaux", neither of them wear rings, etc.)

Had it been me in Blair's shoes, I doubt I would have chosen either of them. Come on, a man needs time to heal. Its not really hard to imagine that his relationship with either woman didn't last, Blair was on the rebound in a way NO ONE would ever want to be on the rebound; dealing with watching the woman he loved more then anything die an extremely painful death, realizing that his two best friends had betrayed him, and having his two critics (Cobra and Maniac) throw "I told you so"s at him left and right.
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We may be far too quick to idealize (or to idolize) the Blair/Angel relationship.

Do they really have that much in common? The first time they were together it was a combination of Blair's schoolboy crush and Angel's emotional weakness over Rosie's death... and that apparently fizzled out. Angel didn't stick by Blair through his trial - or apparently even stay in contact with him during his exile (to her credit, she did defend him to the press immdiately after the loss of the Tiger's Claw).

Then when they got back together eleven years later, their common bond was over a shared tragedy rather than anything permanent - Spirit's death (Blair considered her to be like a sister and she was Angel's best friend). I think the experts will tell you that that's not a great foundation.

The little we see of the relationship in Wing Commander II is fraught with issues. What do we make of Angel's refusal to support Blair over Tolwyn? Or to accept that the stealth fighters were real? What do we make of Blair's kissing Minx - moreover, what do we make of the fact that he never mentions it to Angel? What do we make of the fact that Blair is completely willing to ignore Angel's orders to better win glory for himself?
 
Well, Blair is a hotshot who lives by the moment. It's interesting that Maniac mocks Blair for flying by the book (WC3), or that Paladin defends Blair for not being a hothead (WC4) when many of the options available are the exact opposite (joyriding in an Excalibur, going after Hobbes, flying drunk, following Eisen to the Intrepid on a whim, etc). I would imagine that flying by the seat of his pants would directly relate to his relationships. Who knows how many girlfriends he had during that 10 year lull in his career (or how many of them were crew of the station).
 
t.c.cgi said:
Well, Blair is a hotshot who lives by the moment. It's interesting that Maniac mocks Blair for flying by the book (WC3), or that Paladin defends Blair for not being a hothead (WC4) when many of the options available are the exact opposite (joyriding in an Excalibur, going after Hobbes, flying drunk, following Eisen to the Intrepid on a whim, etc). I would imagine that flying by the seat of his pants would directly relate to his relationships. Who knows how many girlfriends he had during that 10 year lull in his career (or how many of them were crew of the station).
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I don't know if those are the official versions of what happened, but LOAFs earlier post about Blairs alcoholism between 3 and 4 supports your point
 
Bandit LOAF said:
We may be far too quick to idealize (or to idolize) the Blair/Angel relationship.

Do they really have that much in common? The first time they were together it was a combination of Blair's schoolboy crush and Angel's emotional weakness over Rosie's death... and that apparently fizzled out. Angel didn't stick by Blair through his trial - or apparently even stay in contact with him during his exile (to her credit, she did defend him to the press immdiately after the loss of the Tiger's Claw).

Then when they got back together eleven years later, their common bond was over a shared tragedy rather than anything permanent - Spirit's death (Blair considered her to be like a sister and she was Angel's best friend). I think the experts will tell you that that's not a great foundation.

The little we see of the relationship in Wing Commander II is fraught with issues. What do we make of Angel's refusal to support Blair over Tolwyn? Or to accept that the stealth fighters were real? What do we make of Blair's kissing Minx - moreover, what do we make of the fact that he never mentions it to Angel? What do we make of the fact that Blair is completely willing to ignore Angel's orders to better win glory for himself?
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Yes, I've thought about this as well... my take on thier relationship is this: They broke up because the reappearance of Bossman shook things up. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I find it undesirable to stay in contact with my exs. If we have to serve together, I'd be requesting a transfer.
At that point she was under no obligation to stand by him during the trial, though as you said, she did defend him publicly.

I agree with you that Angel and Blair's relationship may not have been well founded, and during war time isn't the best time to start a relationship. What do we make of Angel's refusal to support Blair over Tolwyn? I don't think she really refused to support him. It did seem like she was trying to organize a transfer for him to the Concordia... As we all know, Tolwyn can be a tough man to get along with.

Is it at all possible that he just said to her what he said to Paladin just in a sterner way? He told Paladin that Blair would have to prove his worth to Tolwyn, but Paladin wasn't under his command, and from what I've seen, didn't really have to answer to him. Angel on the other hand did. He might have just been like, "Blair is here for now, be satasfied with that. If I hear anything more on the matter, I might have to transfer you to ISS with him."

As for accepting stealth fighters were real or not... I don't know how much she believed or didn't believe, but I do think that her hands were tied and there was no way Tolwyn was going to listen to that sort of "ridiculous claim."

Which orders of Angel's did he ignore exactly? Are you referring to the final mission where Blair duels Thrakath and takes out 'Mang? If so, I just finished playing Wing Commander 2, and honestly the order to patrol rather than attack seemed more like a direct order from the Admiral. "Non, the Admiral wants you to fly this patrol." As for winning the Glory, well who wouldn't? Show me someone who tried to do something ten years ago, failed, and was disgraced for it, and then given a second chance? Who wouldn't take a shot at redemption?

I know if it were me, I'd be like, "No one else is going to be sacrificed for mistakes made ten years ago. Seeing the end of that base is my responsability and I'll see it through.

As for the kiss with Grimaldi, come on now, she surprised him with that, and I don't know how I would handle it either, for the sake of maintaining piece, I might just shut up about it and hope she gets transferred off soon.

You may be right on the money about Angel and Blair, however I think we need to give Angel a bit more credit then that, not a lot, but maybe a bit. Lets not forget, her duty as an officer, a pilot, and a warrior came first and foremost in her mind. Something Blair understood.
 
frostytheplebe said:
As for winning the Glory, well who wouldn't? Show me someone who tried to do something ten years ago, failed, and was disgraced for it, and then given a second chance? Who wouldn't take a shot at redemption?
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Except that he was found guilty of dereliction of duty. That's what he was transferred to ISS for. And his way of showing the world he wasn't derelict was... outright disobeying direct orders from an Admiral. He was expected to be on that patrol. While it was all done for the sake of a fun game, imagine if things didn't work out so well and he came back to find the Concordia nuked just like the Claw. Oops! Sure showed them who is not derelict in his duty!
 
Well, depends, blair knew the stealth fighters were real, and with the skills at his disposal "The terran pilot who caused so much trouble", I don't know about the novelisation, but sparks could have called security when he asked her to refit his sabre with torpedoes. she said he "was in the clear on the Tiger's claw" early in the game. She let him fight his lost battle once more.

Thrakhath knew at moments notice who the pilot was on the single fighter that was approaching, it was personal(not to mention honorable, having the imperial guard hold back, and come out to duel himself). I think i'd choose thesame path, victory or death, If i spent years living in shame, accused of being a traitor, and being ridiculed, I'd put my life on the line to prove myself to others. The coward of 'Mang became the heart of the tiger.

-on a side note, this was the keyword to trigger hobbes peronality, would thrakhath already given him such a noble nickname when he instructed hobbes at the end of the secret missions?-

Interesting question, actually, i chose rachel over flint, i like blondes, but i've had encounters with both "types" in my life, the rachel-likes tend to stay in touch, walk up to you and ask how life is, whereas the flint-alikes move on, and barely greet you on the next encounter.. Every rose has it's thorn.
 
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