Hakaga?
- Thread starter Lynx
- Start date
phoenix_aod
Rear Admiral
Well for starters the reason why I say fralthi II is causE I just read the book a week or so ago and I think thats what it was, 2)I don't remember him saying anything about the fleet being dismantled in then novel... he mentions the civil war but that hard to fight w/o ships no??? 3)Blair docks with melek's ship and goes through a little kilrathis greeting ritual in the hangar bay, wich given the size of a shuttle in WCIV it would be hard to place a Thunderbolt in that little thing, or a hangar bay with clamshell doors. And yes the Vorghath went rogue but you ignored the rest of the fact that Confed didn't even squak on official lines about the size of the fleet before the vorgath arrived or after, and lets face it Tolwyn had more than enough opportunity and wasn't the only Confee with that intel
phoenix_aod
Rear Admiral
you could go to the Fleet Action mod site they have a really nice model of the Hakaga they rendered and all for their homeworld mod...ask nice and they might point you in the right directions for the model files
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Then you have an amazing grasp of revisionist history and/or a fantastic ability to read words that aren't there. For one thing, the "Fralthi II" didn't even get a name until Prophecy came out... two years after the WCIV novel.
Right, nobody could ever fight a civil war without spaceships! I'm just glad Union forces were able to produce more F-112 Super Hornets than those dirty Confederates back in the 1860s century, or slavery could still exist in America today!
Here's a Melek quote from the WCIV script: "As you know, Colonel, we Kilrathi dismantled all of our war ships under the terms of our treaty with the Confederation. Thus, we have no means of defending ourselves."
I'm not aware that statistics for the ship in WCIV were ever provided. Blair does comment in the WCIV novel that the ship is similar in size to the Border Worlds transport ships he'd seen earlier.
Lets face it? Sheesh.
If you'll stop forgetting the plot to False Colors for *one minute*, you'll remember that Confed didn't *know* Ragark had gathered a fleet. Remember? Kruger kept complaining about Kilrathi attacks and they refused to believe him? And then Tolwyn, who (lets face it!) *did* believe him went out there to help?
Eder
Mr. Standoff
Actually, I'd just like to know if the big Ralari-like thing is really a Hakaga, or if it isn't, or if we don't know that for sure. If it really is a Hakaga, I'd model the overall shape, and the rest I can do the way I did my CVE model... reading bits the of the novel that describe the ship, and placing stuff where stuff needs to be placed.
--Eder
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It's supposed to be a Hakaga.
Eder
Mr. Standoff
Great, thanks, LOAF!
Just one more question - 6 fighter bays doesn't mean 6 different hangar openings or runways, does it? (I think I remember the WCIV Lexington being said as having 2 bays, even though it has only one opening (well, two, one on each end of the ship, but they're the same - ah, you get the idea
)
--Eder
Just one more question - 6 fighter bays doesn't mean 6 different hangar openings or runways, does it? (I think I remember the WCIV Lexington being said as having 2 bays, even though it has only one opening (well, two, one on each end of the ship, but they're the same - ah, you get the idea
)--Eder
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
But put at least two hangars to it, one at the bow and one at the stern, since that's what the Baron describes IIRC. But I got impression that there are six hangar openings from how he said it. Miight be due to the translation though.
And just to be sure everyone remembers my little question ( I know that's rude but it really interests me): Are we sure that the Ha'Tukag is a Hakaga class carrier? (And if yes, where do we get this information from?)
And just to be sure everyone remembers my little question ( I know that's rude but it really interests me): Are we sure that the Ha'Tukag is a Hakaga class carrier? (And if yes, where do we get this information from?)
Eder
Mr. Standoff
Mekt, one hangar at the stern, and one at the bow? Do you think it's possible that it is simply a single "run-through" hangar, like the Victory's?
Anyway, maybe the Hakagas only have one hangar opening, but they have enough bays to ready six fighters for launch at a time... Ah, makes sense to me, indeed. That, combined with enough hangar space and six catapults, would mean that each Hakaga can do a full combat launch in waves of six fighters... scary!
--Eder
Anyway, maybe the Hakagas only have one hangar opening, but they have enough bays to ready six fighters for launch at a time... Ah, makes sense to me, indeed. That, combined with enough hangar space and six catapults, would mean that each Hakaga can do a full combat launch in waves of six fighters... scary!
--Eder
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I'm fairly sure it's not.
As for the landing bays -- look closely at the Fleet Action painting... you can see several of them.
phoenix_aod
Rear Admiral
page 221 'the price of freedom' fourth parageaph flatly states that he is going to be pulled inside meleks ship with a tractor beam.(And on the previous page we see blair flying in a thunderbolt) the black lances were attacking a 13ship convoy wich included freighters and their escort had been driven off. You are correct that the class is not stated as to melek's ship. But at the bottom of page 225 and the top of 226 it states flatly that the Kilrathi are already in a fiveway civil war. Melek makes no mention of the difficulty of defending himself he just states that kilrathi vessels are being attacked by ships with border world logos.
How stupid a resonse is this? The american civil war was fought across a small line of part of a continent. Last I saw the Kilrathi have hundreds of worlds....I think it might just be a smidge harder to fight that with nothing more than shuttles and Dralthi. Don't you??? Or do you think that they're hiring out human merchant ships to shuttle them back and forth to wage their wars with claw and fang??
You want me to lay off False Colors well how about you lay off the video game only plot here??!!
ok assume you are right on this point we still have no evidence that said fleet was ever dismantled. Or that confed even griped.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
What's with all the unnecessary information? What does Melek's ship having a tractor beam, Blair flying a Thunderbolt or Lances attacking them have to do with the class of Melek's ship? Why have you included this? Melek states quite plainly in the game that the Kilrathi have dismantled their fleet. I will quote it for you again: "As you know, Colonel, we Kilrathi dismantled all of our war ships under the terms of our treaty with the Confederation. Thus, we have no means of defending ourselves."
Fine, allow me to explain once again -- this time *without* the sarcasm: there is no provable link between civil war and warships. It is quite possible that they are fighting a war *without* battleships and carriers and whatnot. In fact, as a fun side-note, consider Dallas' enigmatic quote from Prophecy: "No you look, flyboy. And I will talk very slowly. The Kilrathi were tied up on the Feudal Planets, they've got problems of their own."
That's not what I asked you to do at all. I asked you to (and I quote myself) "stop forgetting the plot to False Colors", not *ignore* False Colors. My point -- which you apparently missed -- was that you were saying things about False Colors which weren't *right*, not that you should ignore the work alltogether. Ignoring stuff sucks -- you should never, ever, ever ignore certain facts simply for the sake of winning an argument. Melek tells us the fleet has been dismantled. You can't ignore that (you can disprove it if you like -- you're welcome to try...).
And there's never, ever an excuse to use that much punctuation.
Again, *ACTUALLY READ FALSE COLORS*. The *plot* revolved around the fact that Confed refused to believe that Ragark had a fleet.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Thanks, it always seemed very odd to me. Then maybe you should change it in the ship list.
phoenix_aod
Rear Admiral
the 'unnecessary' information was to point out that they were using large vessels not shuttles and had really nothing to do with specifying the class of ship melek had. As and aside it also mentions in thos pages that makeshift vessels will have to do untill the kilrathi get their shipbuilding back online. I used it as a referance to my position on the kilrathi not having all of their large craft dismantled.
Well considering that the 'Kilrathi Assembly of Clans'(from the map) hold loads of stars inside their territory I have a hard time buying that what is left of the eight ruling clans and any other faction vying for the imperial throne is just making do fighting on worlds without some hardware to back them up...even if they are limited to dralthi and such, those fighters need a carrier to get to and from battle sites....even if the carrier is a modified ttransport the cats HAVE to be using large craft, wich need weapons for defense from enemy fighters/pirates/ or just navigational hazards like stray rocks or something.
I am not ignoring it actually, a very small portion of that plot revolved around confed not believing. The rest had a 'overcoming despite odds' theme what I am contesting is that you are only paying attention to one small part of the video game in that the novel for the same time/event has no mentions whatsoever of the fleets being dismantled. It does remind us that most of their navy was dismembered with the shockwave from Kilrah's death but not a thing about the Kilrathi having to disassemble what was left.
I apparently wan't clear here, we know Ragark hid his buildup from prying eyes but my reference was to the 'after the fact' when Tolwyn returns, as a military man he'll make a full report on the fleet as it is a security issue. If we use a modern model on the losing side of a war, when such a thing comes up the victor, in this case confed, moves to fix the problem, usually swiftly. Nothing since that hinted that confed did anything. The events in FC surely hurt the naval assets in the region but left a sizable force still there.
since this is way off topic for queries on the hakaga, shall we move this to a new board??? I am enjoying the debate despite the repeated banging of our forheads on this
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I already started a new thread with my reply! So hah!