My apologies, people -- haven't had time to reply to long threads in the last day or so. But here goes...
Stealth-Dreadnought? Can you give me some specs on that?
He's referring to the Omega from Fleet Action.
Also, is that the Hvar'kann that has 6 flight-decks or is that the Stealth-Dreadnought?
I think he was confusing the H'var'kann (WC3 Dreadnought) with the Hakaga (FA Heavy Carrier). All that's known about the Omega is that it's smaller and stealthier than the Hakaga and that it mounts some sort of PTC-style gun.
Where did you get the minimums from? You've told me where, and even what the minimums are. But why 16 and why 24. You did not say specifically.
Like for example "there were 8 guns on the left side, implying 8 on the right, which is 16". That's what I'm looking for.
I really don't know -- I did the Vesuvius specs at Johnny's request back in 1998...
My fairly hazy memory suggests that it went something like this:
* The Vesuvius has 40 point defense guns, including lasers and mass drivers.
* It had a dozen lasers on one side. (12x2=24)
* 40-24=16, 16 mass drivers
Yes, it DOES have to do with the basis of how ships jump. The Hakaga is beyond that 500 meter-radius thus requiring special technology to make it jump. That's ENTIRELY what the Hakaga's special technology was all about.
Do you have SPECIFIC information to suggest that the Hakaga can use any jump point? Or does all your evidence suggest that the Hakaga has new jump technology that simply enables it to jump? Just jump, not jump through hoops or rings or anything. Just jump?
The Vesuvius would have to use this new technology because it's above the 1,000 meter length/500 meter-radius requirement. All ships that size would. If the Hakaga, in ADDITION to having such technology to simply enable it to jump, ALSO had the ability to use any jump point, that's a different story.
The 1,000 meter length/500 meter-radius is the size of the average jump point. The Vesuvius *can't* jump through the average jump point. It needs a larger one.
The Hakaga eliminated the 1000/500/whatever the mass limit requirement with its technology. It can jump anywhere. The Vesuvius cannot.
The fact that the Vesuvius can jump into the Sol system means that the Sol Jump points are pretty big. Considering even the H'var'kann, which was a 22,000 meter long ship could manage to get into the Sol-System would suggest that this is probably correct.
So... you *do* understand that there are jump points of different sizes and that the Vesuvius does not have a method of using the smaller ones? Because that'd be necessary to make this conclusion... and it'd make your other argument meaningless.
A lot of my WC-Games are all over the place, and not where I currently live. This would require me to go trekking home and all over the place to find them.
Almost all of the manuals you'd require are available as PDF files. That said, if you're going to obsess over WC-details it'd probably be worth the effort of "trekking home and all over the place" to
have those details available to you. Never rely on unofficial sources and expect to be right.
Then the Bhantkara is not the same carrier as the Kilrathi fleet carrier in WC3. Unless the WC3 one had stats missing.
Would you be so bold as to give me the statistics, since I don't have the luxury of going to the book-store right now.
It most certainly
is the same carrier as in Wing Commander III. All you see in the game and manual is the large laser batteries... big capships like the H'var Kann or the Bantkara have dozens or hundreds of point defense weapons as well...
I would have sworn the WC3 Dreadnought had 1/1/1 as YPR stats. Do you have the exact game engine settings?
Well, I did what I should have done the first time you claimed /ships was wrong -- I *checked* the manuals. Every single version lists the YPR as 5/5/5. That's the original Victory Streak, the PSX manual, the Kilrathi Saga manual, the Japanese WC3 Win95 manual and the 3DO booklet.
I also said it's maneuverability and acceleration makes Intrepid look like it's standing still. Hmmm. Why didn't you count maneuverability in there too since in the game engine it CLEARLY can outmaneuver the Intrepid.
It may not have YPR stats (the Vesuvius) but the game engine kind of counts! I mean who cares if the stats are a bit wierd, hey, I gotta fight the Vesuvius when it's zipping all over the place.
No, this is *wrong*. There's *no way* to properly measure it 'in game' -- since the maneuverability will vary depending on how fast the game is playing. We can use the numbers provided in the game engine, or we can measure it from a static source like the video segment...
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