Gatling weapons

GreyViper

Rear Admiral
Hi is it possible to implement gatling versions of lasers and massdrivers? Since reading from books I understand there were gatling versions of lasers and mass drivers around at WC1 time frame. I can offer one reason why they werent used on smaller-medium confed fighters. Energy drain most small crafts would run out of energy in seconds using them. On a ships that could say use 2 plasma guns, that might not be a problem, meaning it has enough energy to fire longer bursts with the weapon. To balance these weapons I sugest they keep their original damage, increase rate of fire and shorten the range(less acurate then normal version).
ANd last sugestion that these weapons could be obtained only through black market since they are military spec they could be devastating against lightly shielded/armored ships(civilians).
Anyway these were my 2 cents.
 
The ones in movie were gatling neutron cannons if my mind servs me right and they are bit iffy. Reason, because at that time most powerfull weapons on small fighters were Particle Cannons & Neutron Guns. So a privateer running around with gatling neutron cannon and blasting everything in pices might be fun at start but in the end boring & overpowered. Things need to be balanced out with fun and realism, when I sugested these weapons I thought they might add bit flavor since you read about them in book and yet never see them it might be interesting to see them in action.
 
We've already got the mass drivers - something like a stormfire cannon has been considered. We haven't really talked about it much in detail so I'm not sure where we stand on that one.

The current list of guns is as follows:

Photon (medium range, low power, high refire)
Laser (long range, low power, medium refire)
Mass Driver (medium range, medium power, medium refire)
Meson (high range, medium power, medium refire)
Neutron (short range, high power, medium refire)
Plasma (medium-short range, very high power, low refire)
Particles* (long range, high power, low refire)

*(Particles are around, just not commonly available to you, the player.)

Anyhow, this is a pretty good list - it quite well balanced, and I'm not sure adding another gun at this point would be a good thing. Each one has it's own area of effectiveness, and to add another would probably be pointless.
 
I think we might have gotten stuff mixed up with all the back and forth while we were talking. The Photons are generally average to higher power and average to higher refire. I think switching your Meson and Photon guns maintains your gameplay balance and aligns a bit better with how we see both Mesons and Photons used.
 
Even though mesons were more powerful than Mass Drivers in Privateer?
I must have been messed up somehow I thought the photon guns were the little green/yellow puff things the Jathrek shot out.
oops.
 
Yeah, that's where I thought we got confused. The little puffs were Plasma Bolts, and the stronger guns were Photons. Yeah, on second thought, putting Mesons too low on the chart screws stuff up too. I like Lasers, Mass Drivers and Mesons as your bottom three, as in Privateer 1. Photons just seem to occupy a higher class, on either side of the Neutron somehow.
 
Since Pioneer is set before Righteous Fire, I suppose we won't be seeing the Fusion guns, right? They were so cool looking too...
 
Howard Day said:
Okay, works for me. Is there anything lighter than a laser?

Actually I like it the way you have it--the Photon gun firing faster with shorter range and less damage per shot compared to the lasers, but doing more damge per second if all the bolts hit. For example:

Laser: Range 4500, refire .25, Damage 18 (for 72 per second), Power 10

vs.

Photon: Range 3000, refire .10, Damage 10 (for 100 per second), Power 5 (uses more power per second but less per unit of damage)

You could go with saying that these are the "old style" Photon cannons, while the type seen on the Thunderbolt in WC3 are "Heavy" Photon cannons.

It seems that what you are trying to do here is to have two low-power guns, two medium-power guns, and two high-power guns, with range/refire/efficiency trade-offs between them, and the Particle cannons breaking the mold a bit by having better refire and longer range than the heavy guns while causing more damage than the medium guns. (I agree--the Particle cannons should hit harder than anything with the same range).

Anyway, I do like the idea of having one gun type that shoots very quickly yet does not do excessive damage per second (such as the 1/3 higher than lasers in my example above--you'd have to balance range vs. power vs. damage like with other guns).
 
Powerful Photon and Plasma Guns were also around way before WC1. However, the Mass Drivers we see in WC1 *are* the Gatling mass drivers.
Well personally I think the ones you use in all WC games were the normal ones, but then that’s just me. As for Plasma gun yeah I remember them being around but they weren’t as useful as they were in post WC2 that’s why they didn’t show up before I figure.
Is there a distinction between a Mass Driver and a Gatling Mass Driver?
Well normal weapon should look like this
massdrivercannon.all.wc3.gif
stormfire.borderworlds.wc4.gif

and Gatling version.
Stormfire and Gatling versions of laser/mass driver are similar, both use multibarrel system to achieve greater rate of fire. Difference is while Stormfire needs ammo Gatling laser uses energy reserves and is useful against shields.
We've already got the mass drivers - something like a Stormfire cannon has been considered. We haven't really talked about it much in detail so I'm not sure where we stand on that one.
The thing with Stormfire was that it didn’t use any energy and also was less effective against shield also it was effective at close range. Basically the Gatling version of laser and mass driver would work like this. Take 4-6 lasers/mass drivers merge them into one gun with six barrels revolving around a central shaft. After one fires and goes on cooldown next one comes up reducing the chances of overheating and allowing fast burst fire. The only drawbacks I can think are that they have shorter range and use up energy at rapid rate. I think you might say that dust cannon is the advanced version of Gatling mass driver and uses that concept. I admit they would need a bit balancing so that they wouldn’t dominate higher tier guns, but their energy drain should balance that out.
 
I can see the desire for Gattling versions of the weapons, but I can also see where they would be a headache for the game programmers (as they mean more guns to make, and more balancing issues) and how they could prove to be unbalancing to the game (in the right hands).

I much prefered the fire rate of weapons in Priv 1 compared to Priv 2. Priv 1 had the standard WC rate of fire, one shot at a time, where Priv 2 had a constant stream of shots. Priv 2 also required you to have a cooling system to maintain that stream of shots.

To be fair though, I absolutely LOVED the stormfire in WC4. An argument though could be that it doesn't exist in the era of Pioneer, or that it's military only.

If the programmers wanted, they could have it as a special weapon you can get, perhaps only at smuggler bases / pirate bases... Perhaps only as a reward for a sub-plot... Perhaps only NPCs can have them.

Balancing for the stormfire shouldn't be an issue since it was used in a WC game, but programming and details might be too troublesome. I wouldn't argue with the programmers if they didn't implement it, but again I would LOVE to see it.
 
BattleFate said:
I can see the desire for Gattling versions of the weapons, but I can also see where they would be a headache for the game programmers (as they mean more guns to make, and more balancing issues) and how they could prove to be unbalancing to the game (in the right hands).
Yes but dosent that problem apply to every weapon?

BattleFate said:
I much prefered the fire rate of weapons in Priv 1 compared to Priv 2. Priv 1 had the standard WC rate of fire, one shot at a time, where Priv 2 had a constant stream of shots. Priv 2 also required you to have a cooling system to maintain that stream of shots.
I agree with you on some points but you have to understand the events in Priv 2 happen in distant future, hence the diffrent tech and rates of fire.

BattleFate said:
To be fair though, I absolutely LOVED the stormfire in WC4. An argument though could be that it doesn't exist in the era of Pioneer, or that it's military only.

If the programmers wanted, they could have it as a special weapon you can get, perhaps only at smuggler bases / pirate bases... Perhaps only as a reward for a sub-plot... Perhaps only NPCs can have them.

Balancing for the stormfire shouldn't be an issue since it was used in a WC game, but programming and details might be too troublesome. I wouldn't argue with the programmers if they didn't implement it, but again I would LOVE to see it.
By WC standards its a retro weapon that uses depleted uranium ammo. Since it dosent use energy making it less effective against shielded targets, but devestating against unarmored targets. The ones used in WC4 were taken from pirate ships by the way so it would imply its abandon ware at pre WC4 events.
 
GreyViper said:
Yes but dosent that problem apply to every weapon?


I agree with you on some points but you have to understand the events in Priv 2 happen in distant future, hence the diffrent tech and rates of fire.


By WC standards its a retro weapon that uses depleted uranium ammo. Since it dosent use energy making it less effective against shielded targets, but devestating against unarmored targets. The ones used in WC4 were taken from pirate ships by the way so it would imply its abandon ware at pre WC4 events.
I don't claim to be a WC expert in any respect. So I deffer to those who do in fact know more...

True, it does apply to every weapon, and I was going to bring up another point, but it gets knocked down by the same argument, it applies to every weapon. But again I can see reasons for the programmers not wanting to include them. They are not standard WC weapons types (to my knowledge, let's forget about the movie on this point), and the designers may not "see" them belonging in the game they are making.

My opinion about the Priv 1/2 differences weren't saying that Priv2 was wrong, just that I prefered the firing method of Priv1. And knowing that Pioneer will take place even before Priv1 in timeline, it makes sense that the firing method should be closer to Priv1 than 2.

Again, I defer to those who know more. I was just trying to find a method to allow the inclusion of the Stormfire without making it a mainstream weapon. But having it only sold at Pirate bases would seem to support both that and the point you brought up. (I really want to see it included, but I'm not going to complain if it isn't).
 
BattleFate said:
I much prefered the fire rate of weapons in Priv 1 compared to Priv 2. Priv 1 had the standard WC rate of fire, one shot at a time, where Priv 2 had a constant stream of shots. Priv 2 also required you to have a cooling system to maintain that stream of shots.

Every Wing Commander game has had some system in place to restrict weapons fire. Privateer 2 also includes one of the more notable exceptions with the Mass Ion Cannon's unlimited rate of fire.

BattleFate said:
True, it does apply to every weapon, and I was going to bring up another point, but it gets knocked down by the same argument, it applies to every weapon. But again I can see reasons for the programmers not wanting to include them. They are not standard WC weapons types (to my knowledge, let's forget about the movie on this point), and the designers may not "see" them belonging in the game they are making.

"Gatling" Wing Commander weapons have existed on a semi-regular basis in games dating back to the original Wing Commander I.

BattleFate said:
Again, I defer to those who know more. I was just trying to find a method to allow the inclusion of the Stormfire without making it a mainstream weapon. But having it only sold at Pirate bases would seem to support both that and the point you brought up. (I really want to see it included, but I'm not going to complain if it isn't).

I don't think this needs too much special consideration. Prophecy brings back the Stormfire on new ships, but not quite so consistently as to necessarily make them mainstream.
 
ChrisReid said:
"Gatling" Wing Commander weapons have existed on a semi-regular basis in games dating back to the original Wing Commander I.
Ok, Sorry. Never played anything before WC3 with the exception of Privateer, and simply don't remember seeing any weapons which could fire that fast (with the exception of the Stormfire).
 
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